White Star Gunship

[Methos5000]

I was looking at some of the Armageddon stats in some of the online ship viewers (I dont have the book yet, I will probably get it on my next payday) and I was wondering, Is the White Star Gunship worth the cost?

It doesnt seem like it has that much of an advantage over the WSC-2 especially since it only gets 3 more crew but it dodge is a 5+ as opposed to a 3+. Even factoring in the adaptive armor(giving it an effective 6 more crew) that large drop in its dodge ability seems to offset any bonuses it would have had.

The 1D6 self repair insted of self repair 2 doesnt seem like an advantage given the small crew and while its AD on some of its weapons are double that of the WSC-2, how is that an advantage when the ship is floating empty in space because it dodges on half as well as the WSC-2?

Now im still new to all this so maybe I am missing something here, could someone please explain why someone would ever take a WS Gunship over 2 WSC-2s?

Thanks

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

The main advantage I can see is the potentially larger Self Repair, and the White Star Fighter over two Nials. It's also more survivable when facing anti-fighter weaponry. Other than that it's whether you prefer two ships that are slightly easier to kill or one harder to kill one.

 

[Methos5000]

Okay I missed the fighter compliment so that is an advantage, but even though the ship is harder to kill isnt it statistically easier to de-crew, since it it easier to hit (a 66% chance of being hit vs. a 33% chance)?

Thank you for your answer though it did clear one thing up for me

 

[Burger]

The Gunship totally sucks at the moment. 15 crew on a War level ship is just stupid. The only ship worse is the Liati. I would never take a Gunship over WSC-2's, WS's, a WS Carrier or half a Victory.

 

[locarno24]

In fact, that's one of the problems....there are less potent ships in all the fleets, but none of them stick out so badly; the utter superbness of most ISA warships works against the gunship. Badly.

It just doesn't cut it, frankly. Whenever I look at either the model or the statline, I have a voice in the back of my head saying vorlon light cruiser vorlon light cruiser vorlon light cruiser.

 

[Burger]

I quite like the model now that I've got used to it. See here.

 

[Alexb83]

A few of the newer ships seem to have been stuck with ridiculously small crews for their PL - the Neroon springs to mind with 50/25, also. But now that you mention it, the Liati is just... nasty. 40/20? Ouch. Strange that the new ships all have crew thresholds at 50%, even stranger that they're very low crew totals (relative to other ships at their PL). But this is worse when you consider we're talking about the two highest PLs in the game.

 

[locarno24]

The Glitterstar? :shock:
At least no-one will accidentally mix up their minis with yours. EVER.

Hmm....to each there own, I suppose, as far as the gunship is concerned.

 

[Triggy]

A few of the newer ships seem to have been stuck with ridiculously small crews for their PL - the Neroon springs to mind with 50/25, also. But now that you mention it, the Liati is just... nasty. 40/20? Ouch. Strange that the new ships all have crew thresholds at 50%, even stranger that they're very low crew totals (relative to other ships at their PL). But this is worse when you consider we're talking about the two highest PLs in the game.

The Neroon, White Star Gunship and Z'Takk all have ridiculously low crew scores that to my mind should all be doubled and the Nemesis has a crew score that should be 25 higher.

Like you I can't even fathom why the crew scores are so low in these cases, especially when higher scores would make the ships balanced (there are a few cases where low crew scores work but in these cases it tends to be the ship has a high damage score rather than a low crew score).

 

[Tank]

the low crew scores could be due to more advanced automation

 

[Burger]

the low crew scores could be due to more advanced automation

Then the crew shouldn't die, when the automated systems get shot...
Crew scores ae meant to be propotional anyway, there aren't literally 50 crew members on a Neroon. Its just that every hit causes 2% of the crew to die, therefore there are 50 crew boxes.

 

[Tank]

I was just offering a suggestion as to why they had such low crew scores, and crew are always likely to die when your ship gets shot!

 

[Burger]

I was just offering a suggestion as to why they had such low crew scores, and crew are always likely to die when your ship gets shot!

Crew are always likely to die yes, but surely the same proportion will die no matter what the total number. Each crew member has the same chance of survival, no mtter how many of his mates are around him. So if there is a less starting number, less will die.

 

[Tank]

what???? :?

 

[Locutus9956]

Sorry burger but WHAT?!?!?! If theres a ship of the same size with alot less crew theres a much higher chance of there not being anyone in the part of the ship that takes damage, if a ship is more automated and then youll most likely have small areas where the crew are mostly located like the bridge and engineering as opposed to being all over the place manually operating systems. Crew dont space themsleves evenly all over a ship

 

[Locutus9956]

Incidentally If I had my way crew damage wouldnt be taken so much 'in tandem' with hull damage. Perhaps have double and triple damage weapons NOT apply to crew damage or even have it so you dont take crew damage except from crits (though in this case Id suggest making crew die more from crits in general))

 

[Burger]

Sorry burger but WHAT?!?!?! If theres a ship of the same size with alot less crew theres a much higher chance of there not being anyone in the part of the ship that takes damage

My point exactly. So the average pecentage of crew lost per hit, will be the same as a ship with lots of crew.

Lots of crew: 2% of the crew killed per hit.
Few crew: None killed for the first 9 hits, then 20% killed on the 10th.

The end result is the same.

Crew dont space themsleves evenly all over a ship

In ACTA they apparently do, because damage and crew loss are tied together.

 

[Alexb83]

That still doesn't explain the 50% threshold (in fact, heavy automation should mean a very high threshold).
Consider, other war PL ships: 85/62 for the Octurion, 73% threshold. 56/49 for the Mankhat, 87.5% threshold... 100/83 for the drakh mothership. Sharlin 46/39, 85%. It goes on and on. Those 50% thresholds are just way out of place.
The same goes looking at the Neroon vs. other Armageddon ships.

It also extends into the hull tracks. The threshold for the Neroon is 68%. It's in excess of 75 or even 80% for most other armageddon ships.

Edit: started writing before lunch, finished after. was responding to tank re: automation levels.

 

[Burger]

100% agreed Alex, the Neroon's crippled/skeleton levels seems to be based on the tournament rules Minbari trend, rather than the SFOS. It should be put back to SFOS-style, to take into account the nerfed stealth rules.

 

[Alexb83]

Well, hopefully in next months' S&P, Matt might address the stats for the Liati, Nemesis and the Neroon along with the revamp of the Sagg. The 50% damage=crippled/skeleton trend is completely out of whack with the existing fleet lists, which soak up waaaay more damage before thresholds.