Whip

[Feuerbart]

Hey!

In the description of the whip it is said that it deals no damge to someone with a DR of 3 or higher. On the other hand it can be used as a finesse weapon. So is it possible to damage an opponent with a DR of 3+ by making and succeeding in a finesse attack? How would you rule this?

Feuerbart

 

[Sutek]

Yes. That's how Finesse works. I completely bypasses armor DR if you roll high enough. The fact that no damage is dont' to DR3 or greater is, in effect, a suggestion that even with no armor, a target of a whip is considered to have a DR3.

 

[sbarrie]

Yes. That's how Finesse works. I completely bypasses armor DR if you roll high enough. The fact that no damage is dont' to DR3 or greater is, in effect, a suggestion that even with no armor, a target of a whip is considered to have a DR3.

What?

 

[sbarrie]

So is it possible to damage an opponent with a DR of 3+ by making and succeeding in a finesse attack? How would you rule this?

Yes, anybody with a DR of 3+ must be finessed by a whip in order to do damage. Someone with a DR of 0-2 can be hurt by a non-finessed whip as normal.

 

[Sutek]

Exactly. Remember that the rule for Finessed Weapons is that all light wepons are used as Finesse Weapons and the wielder may use his DEX mod instead of his STR mod (it's not mandatory). Some other one-handed and larger weaposn can be used as Finessse Weapons, but the rules for that type of use are in the weapon description. The Whip is one of those kinds of weapons. :wink:

 

[Ralph]

I don't think all light weapons MUST be used as finesse weapons. I'm sure that you could still wield a shortsword as a standard weapon if you wanted to (if you have a high strength, for example).
If you attack with a weapon as a finesse weapon, you still get to add your strength bonus to damage. The rules only say that you use dex for the attack roll, and that you can't add your str modifier to AP. Nothing about damage. (or have I missed the reference?)

 

[Sutek]

No one said MUST. I said MAY. The wielder decides.

If you decide to use a weapon as a Finesse Weapon three things can occur:

1. You miss - wiff...nothing else.
2. You hit but do not roll equal to or higher than DV+DR. All weapons ahve an AP value, but Finesse Weapons (when used as such) never apply that value to the strike. They only do if they are not used in a Finesse attack.
3. You hit and equal of exceed DV+DR. The Armor DR is of no consequence and no ammount of it is subtracted from the total damage inflicted (Wpn + STRb).

In other words, you alwas add your STRb to final damage, but you only look at STRb+AP to determine if armor DR fails when not using a Finesse attack. If you're making a Finesse attack, STRb+AP versus DR is irrellevant because DR is either fully effective or fully ineffectve.