Whats a good 5 Point Dilgar raid fleet?

shakespear

Mongoose
I am ordering Armagedon and I hope my early EA fleet fits the time line.

I want a "historical" opponent to play against. The Dilgar look good.

I want to get a decent force though. I dont want to get stuff that doesnt work well together, so I appeal to the people who actually play Dilgar.

What works?
 
shakespear said:
I am ordering Armagedon and I hope my early EA fleet fits the time line.

I want a "historical" opponent to play against. The Dilgar look good.

I want to get a decent force though. I dont want to get stuff that doesnt work well together, so I appeal to the people who actually play Dilgar.

What works?

2 Targraths, 4 Omelos, 1 Ochliavida, and 2 Jashikar scouts.


Dave
 
i agree with davesaint but with one exception i wouldnt take the jashes instead i would go for another ochlavita you then have 8 heavy hitters and two that have weapons that ignore ea interceptors and they are all fast ships with 2/45 turns
 
I suggest, not to try out any "historical" battles, unless using rbax supplements.

Most fleets are severly handicapped when actually ISDs for reference.
 
Against EA early years you will see Saggitarius, Saggitarius, and more Saggitarius. Anything else is just insane. Your primary goal is to close range as soon as possible. You don't have any defenseive system at all, so preventing missile hits is a bad idea through and through. You will get cranked, period.

Unless you're way clever or way fast. I propose both.

Fleet (Armageddon rules):
3 x Targrath (3 Raid)
2 x Omelos (1 Raid)
1 x Omelos + 2 x Jashakar (New Armageddon Breakdown, 1 Raid)

This stack has a pulsar/bolter reach of 28". Against most anything, that'll be close to enough. It also actually has copious long-range firepower -- it boasts a total of 24 Disruption Torpedoes, which should be about enough, under scout support, to lift at least one Sag, without question. The pulsars are useful light firepower and soak up the interceptors, then the Bolters eliminate one Saggitarius per turn. Extra side, aft, and turret pulsar hits are gravy.

The scout is there to allow you the chance of a All Power to Engines and a Bolter or Pulsar redirect on the close turn. I cannot emphasize enough the massive proportional boost in firepower the Dilgar receive under this special order -- more than any other race. If a scout can give you one or two of these for free, by all means, let it. If you win the initiative duel -- and you should -- you have a real chance with a 6-squadron of firepower to kill 3 Saggitarius before they even fire. This would give you a chance.

The scouts also perform two other important services. You want to make sure that you set up as close as possible to EA, and winning the placement duel can allow you to do just that. You may be able to set up your approach behind terrain, as well.

The other, of course, is they are the only craft available with jump point. In a scenario where you are really hosed in deployment range -- like, say Annihilation or Space Superiority with zero terrain -- you have an additonal approach option. Sure, he has missiles in all directions, but if he took Long-range missiles on these boards, jumping in on the side or some such may be a huge advantage. Or, you can at least just muck with the EA's head. No other ship you might use has jump point available.

Notes:
- Don't take any of the big ships. You're in mortal danger of not being able to close with any relevant speed critical. This is what excludes the Rohric from this fight. Fast big ships are worse, because that's the Mankhat, and one ship is a missile crit magnet, and an awful idea.
- Sure, 1 die of beam is useful, but don't expect that to be the reason you take the Ochliativa. You take it if you're expecting to need a lot of come-abouts; then the twin-link is very useful and better than the Omelos's 14-die pulsar system. The beam is typically outclassed by massed suites of Disruption Torpedoes, which stack nonlinearly.
- You have no fighters here. That's a good thing, as the setup ranges of Carrier Clash are something you want precisely zero part of. Free scenario reroll? Sign me up!
- Novae may look big, but when Bolters fire, they KILL THINGS, so don't expect that Nova to require too much attention. Thank the EA for every one they field with a shot of Vodka, because given how powerful the Sag is at Skirmish, your opponent has GOT to be drinking to take one of these over two Saggitarius. Of course, if that Nova is the only EA thing you can get to in the close turn, by all means, blast it -- but you've just got to kill those Saggitarius first, without question.
- On turn 1, the criticals problem may be so severe as to be crippling. Make sure, therefore, that you get the shot you deserve. Make a pentacon -- that's probably best -- and then fire it en masse. At least you'll get to use most all your D-torps on turn 1. If you don't squadron up, I guarantee you won't get that opportunity.
- If you get a Call to Arms, hitch up your drawers and go kill. You will get victims on turn 1, but without cover, the missile salvo will be without mercy.
- You will just about automatically win the Supply Ships scenario, either as attacker or defender. Trust me here.

Finally, you can't expect to win against a pure Sagg stack in a normal fight. As vile as the Targrath is -- and it is! -- the Skirmish Sag is worse. This shoudl give you a good chance, though, and in certain scenarios, you can by all means win.
 
Too many Omelos; torpedo fire and close quarters all arc brawls are what Omelos are good for, and they are good at it, but not in that proportion.
Don't worry about beating interceptors; sheer volume of fire usually achieves that. Actually, the Dilgar are the one fleet the skirmish Saggi doesn't look overpowered when stacked up against...

With the new points splits in Armageddon, I'd go for three Targrath, and split the others to 1 Skirmish/2 Patrol to pick up a pair of Omelos and four Jashakar. That gives you four scout capable initiative sinks that can hit ferociously hard when they get a chance, two all round brawlers, and three ships that, well, I have been spoilt by a long string of far above average results with Targrath. I routinely demand the impossible of them, and it's amazing how often they manage to deliver.
 
Well the Saggi will be changed soon and as for the Dilgar I would have to say tha Tagrath is the mother of all evil little ships :D Mmmmmm boltery goodness :twisted:
 
Rorhics are a right pain to go up against too. Hull 6, loads of damage and can lay down some pretty nasty firepower. And they're only Raid level. OK, yes, they're slow, but damn are they tough.
 
Slow?!?! As compared to what? Drazi? Vorchans? Theyre pretty damn fast for a raid ship if you ask me and the firepower they wield if you let them CAF on you with their forward guns is nothing short of obscene.

I once had 2 of them attack me in an 'ambush' scenario.... that was painful.

ps. this is NOT an anti Dilgar rant, as I happen to find the Dilgar list pretty balanced. Sure it packs one hell of a whallop but if you get in behind them theyre dead...
 
Damn... stupid Dilgar ships with their hard to remember names.. I meant the Targrath originally, the Rhoric IS damn slow (though it certainly has teeth....)
 
Rohrics aren't a good against early EA; you're asking to get parked or virtually so (speed crits are far too common), and the value of Hull 6 is dramatically reduced by single-fire SAP (as opposed to beam, where it still is of good use).

Rohrics serves one great purpose -- they're the fastest spinning 2/45 ships out here. With 2 45's in 5 ", you can whip around to ships behind you with great vengeance on successful come-abouts. In campaign, I hoard XP dice on these ships for just this reason (that, and repairing speed crits as fast as possible). The typical move here is 2.5" forward, turn 45, move 2", turn 90, meaning that there is only a 2.2" wide corridor behind the Rhoric that is safe. The bolter array is only 8 dice, so against stuff with interceptors it won't matter individually, but I just recently was on the receiveing end of a Rohric squadron and it is, indeed, bad neews in the right place. More than any other ship except the Omelos, its value is hot-cold depending on the status of its Disruption Torpedoes. Turns with those online should be observed with great concern -- they make or break the ship.

Oh yes -- its worth noting on the other side that Dilgar are highly succeptible to jump point bombing. Forcing ships to work at close range usually means they are close to each other and are therefore succeptible. Ochliavitas all prey to this far more often than I would like, but it's also very useful against those Rohric rear guards to eliminate turning (see above).
 
I'm not sold on the Targrath. Here's my five pointer.

2 Omelos
2 Omelos
2 Ochlavita
2 Ochlavita
3 Jashakar

Form the Omelos and Ochlavita into pentacons.
 
I would suggest the following:

2 x Tagrath - seriously nasty raid level ship - fast and evil bolters
4 x Ochlavita - fast, beam weapon to bypass interceptors and lots of twin linked pulsars
2 x Omelos - good all round ship - has good all round firepower - good escort ship, fast too

well thats my two pennies worth
 
I got the dilgar fleet box a couple months ago and put together a quick 5 point fleet out of it, having not had the time to finish assembling of late - 3 Targrath, 2 Ochlavita, a Jashakar and 2 flights of Thorun. I tend to field it against raiders or Early EA. The Thorun are there to speedbump any decent dogfighters while the Targrath and Ochalivta charge into the enemy's line, gaining rerolls from the Jashakar.
 
angelus2000 said:
Whats the fluff for bolters, anyways? Some sort of derived plasma pulse or something completely different?

Well in AoG stoff they were the precusor to the pulse weapon, they only fired one pulse, but it was a big one. However as the EA already has pulse weapons in the Dilgar war era in Mongoose stuff that might have changed.

Nick
 
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