What do you all think now?

[DANDELION]

Well, we have had runequest back for a while and I'm wondering how everyone feels about it now.

We have been provided with - and are continuing to be provided with - a glut of rules supplements and settings books.

We have rules-fixes published online.

We have the SRD's for some of the essential information if we do not immediately wish to buy in to a particular supplement.

Glorantha is getting all the glorious attention it deserves.

And already third-party-publishers are releasing products.

There was a lot of noise about runequest at first, what do you all reckon now? My guess is that people are becoming happier and happier with it as the weeks pass.

 

[weasel_fierce]

I think its definately getting there. Its a good and fun game, and one well worth playing.

 

[Utgardloki]

Unfortunately, I think the Runequest books are a bit overpriced. I'd prefer either to see a cheaper softcover book or a more expensive hardcover with double the information in each book.

Unfortunately also, and no responsibility to this goes to Mongoose, I have not yet had an opportunity to play Runequest yet. Part of it has been other priorities in my life, including my full time job. (I am posting this from my motel room right now. I have my Runequest books with me, but I also have a book by Roger Penrose that I want to finish reading. And my supervisor thinks I should be spending more time doing my job. Fortunately, I still think 40 hours a week should be enough. By the end of the week, we'll see who ends up winning the argument.) It looks like there are a lot of good things in the game, and hopefully I'll get a chance to run a game early next year.

edit: I do have to say there are still a lot of things that look good in this game. I'm sure that anything that does not work will be able to be fixed with houserules.

 

[philreed]

We have been provided with - and are continuing to be provided with - a glut of rules supplements and settings books.

Usually "glut" is used to state that there's a lot of bad products. Is this what you meant?

 

[Halfbat]

I still think much the same as I did when it first came out: still delighted. And that's having run a fair few games. It generally works really well with an intense feel.

Yes, there are some issues which have been partially resolved (combat description, opposed rolls, CAs for creatures with multiple weapons) which could be sorted more rigourously and there are some specialised situations which the rules don't cover. The advantage with MRQ is that it is rules-lite and in that respect is probably closer to RQ1/RQ2: easy to house-rule locally with something which others can accept (see the wiki, for example, and simonh's site).

Are the rulebooks too expensive? No, not for hardback. A softback players version like Conan, for example, would be useful but the hardback's wear well and are worth the extra cost for core rulebooks.

 

[Utgardloki]

I still think much the same as I did when it first came out: still delighted. And that's having run a fair few games. It generally works really well with an intense feel.

Yes, there are some issues which have been partially resolved (combat description, opposed rolls, CAs for creatures with multiple weapons) which could be sorted more rigourously and there are some specialised situations which the rules don't cover. The advantage with MRQ is that it is rules-lite and in that respect is probably closer to RQ1/RQ2: easy to house-rule locally with something which others can accept (see the wiki, for example, and simonh's site).

Are the rulebooks too expensive? No, not for hardback. A softback players version like Conan, for example, would be useful but the hardback's wear well and are worth the extra cost for core rulebooks.

They are too expensive if people don't buy the rulebooks because they are more expensive than the contents seem to be worth. I don't think I can afford to run a Glorantha game, unless I just make everything up extrapolated from the original Runequest rulebook, which I already have.

Part of the problem is the way the books are arranged. Keeping up with Forgotten Realms or Eberron requires a fortune and a full time commitment, but you can run a campaign with just one book for about 40 dollars, and can buy just the books that you need instead of having to buy them all. For example, you don't need "The Unapproachable East" if your PCs are not going to go there, and the core campaign sourcebook has enough information on spells and deities that you do not need the Magic of Faerun or Faiths and Pantheons, if your budget does not cover the expense.

Another way of looking at it, is how much are you paying per page of information. The Runequest Companion book is $24.95 for 93 pages, or 26 cents a page. The Iron Kingdoms Witchfire Trilogy is $34.95 for 320 pages, or 10 cents a page. And Iron Kingdoms stuff is very richly detailed and well thought out.

Another way of looking at it, is you can run the Iron Kingdoms Witchfire Trilogy for about 70 dollars. How much would it cost to run a pre-written epic Runequest adventure, assuming one is written somewhere?

(Some people like making their own adventures, but I am a GM pressed for time, so I need pre-written adventures that I can tweak as I desire.)

 

[Chardros The Reaper]

I'm very pleased with Runequest, as are my players. Sure, there's a little bit of rules confusion here and there, but certainly no more than any other system I've ever gamed. I'm glad support is coming quickly...though maybe not quickly enough for me! The only complaint I have is that I have to wait several more months for a setting I'm interested in, namely Hawkmoon/Young Kingdoms/Corum (not sure which is supposed to be out first).

I'm glad Glorantha is being supported so well as there are many fans of that setting, but I personally could never get into it, though I respect its many layers. Lankhmar is closer to what I like, sword and sorcery, but while I like the Leiber stories okay, the setting and tone is a bit too tongue-in-cheek for me.

So right now I'm running a game set in a world of my own design, but I'm sick of doing so much work. I want to concentrate on adventures and not on world-building. So, as soon as those settings arrive, I'll be very content indeed!

 

[Exubae]

Core Rule Books:
Core, Companion, and Legendary books have got progressively better - but really these could have been split into two books one for player and the other for the Ref, would make things easier to find for a start.
The last two core Equipment and Monsters where excellent, though of limited utility.

But overall the rules aren't much better than any other incarnation of BRP, though saying that there no worse (and there is plenty of cool ideas in there), but still require house rulling to play smoothly and the only real reason to stick with them is the setting books and being too damn idle to rework the stat etc.

Glorantha Books:
Even with the hickup in COG1 when editing/retro-fitting cults into the final version of the rules, writing has been excellent quality - I've been impressed with everything so far...


My main moan is that even with hard covers the books seem to comparitively expensive.
Some of the Gloranthan artwork suggests the artists are not getting thorough grounding in background (though quality is generally good).

When mongoose produce the second edition of the rules, they'll probably be well worth buying, then hopefully all the niggly little glitches will have been ironed out, and they won't be under such tight time constrictions to get the product on to the shelves as they where with the Core Rules book.

But when all said and done things do seem to be getting better.

 

[elgrin]

We have been provided with - and are continuing to be provided with - a glut of rules supplements and settings books.

Usually "glut" is used to state that there's a lot of bad products. Is this what you meant?

As I have fallen for this version like no other since RQ2, I'd use the word abundance.

 

[BWP]

what do you all reckon now?

I reckon that the quantity of material that has been published in a short space of time is great. However, I don't like the way it's been distributed throughout so many expensive books.

I'll be happy to wait for a 2nd ed. with faults corrected and books like "companion" and "equipment" integrated with the core rules into one soft-cover volume. Similarly several of the Glorantha books can be collected into logical compilation volumes (also soft-cover).

When this happens I'll start buying the books.

 

[homerjsinnott]

I agree with the majority of posters, they are too expensive and at 15p a page on average they are not dense enough. The standard has been good but not exceptional over all, with some fairly interesting ideas.

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Are the rulebooks too expensive? No, not for hardback. A softback players version like Conan, for example, would be useful but the hardback's wear well and are worth the extra cost for core rulebooks.

96 page hardbacks are too expensive, because 96 pages doesn't need to be a hardback book...

Personally I'd always prefer a softback book - they are lighter to carry around. I would also have preferred for the books we have had published so far to have been published in half as many physical volumes...

 

[weasel_fierce]

I actually prefer the hardcovers. They are pricey though.

 

[ninthcouncil]

Are the rulebooks too expensive? No, not for hardback. A softback players version like Conan, for example, would be useful but the hardback's wear well and are worth the extra cost for core rulebooks.

96 page hardbacks are too expensive, because 96 pages doesn't need to be a hardback book...

Personally I'd always prefer a softback book - they are lighter to carry around. I would also have preferred for the books we have had published so far to have been published in half as many physical volumes...

Given the choice, I'd have preferred to purchase Cults 1 & 2, and Magic, as one, softback volume without colour illustrations. That's not just me being a cheapskate, it's what I prefer. But Mongoose didn't get where they are today without understanding what their market is, and what it will bear. Companies who produce the sort of books I just described - such as, say, Chaosium - are in a considerably less healthy position. This is a niche market and the prices have to be high for the producers to survive.

 

[Licheking]

I'm finding the game fine. Books fine, yes expensive but no more so than equivalant products out there. And the reason d20 stuff is cheaper per page is because they can afford to buy in bulk and be fairly sure that every copy will be sold. Smaller companies have to do smaller print runs and that is slightly more expensive per item than huge print runs.

Personally i think Mongoose is doing a fine job considering how hard it is to satisfy roleplayers anytime, they have jumped into a long standing setting with fanatical fans and seem to be doing a good job of it. Kudos to them.

I prefer hardbacks, they last longer, and the pages tend not to fall out of the book. The last company i bought a main rulebook from which they had done in softback was Nightfall Games here in England, a game called SLA Industries, and the book fell apart within weeks. Now they have done one in hardback which though more expensive i still have. Hardbacks rule!!!

 

[Licheking]

Just as an afterthought, hardbacks are good for meting out punishment to players as well. :lol:

 

[philreed]

As a gamer, I prefer hardcover and would be willing to buy 32-page and 64-page books in hardcover.

What frustrates me is when a line is nothing but hardcovers for several releases and then suddenly starts releasing softcovers. I know it's shallow, but I want my entire collection for a game to match in format.

 

[Rurik]

Well, I have gone over my core rulebook carefully, and it has not actually gotten any better than it was when I first picked it up. It is still pretty much a mess.

I understand that there have been many houserules - hell, I've posted many of them - and that most people houserule every system they play, and I am no exception. MRQ is I think the first title I have bought that pretty much HAS to be houseruled to play. Does anyone play it exactly as presented in the rulebook and clarification PDF?

I have playtested it extensively and tried many of the different house rules, I have tried the one roll and two roll system for combat, and I still don't know exactly which rules I am going to use when I start up my game (though I'm close). Ironically, I think I am going to play it a lot closer to the official rules than many of the people who are using it now.

With hindsight really, the core book is the only one that is that bad. Cults 2 has taken a beating on its' editing, but honestly it is more an issue with the editor not being as familiar with Glorantha as the established fanbase. Other than a couple spells being changed and costed so that they are basically unusable, and a couple missing Rune spells, the editing itself is not really that bad. I can think of a few instances in Monsters that suffer from this same lack of Gloranthan knowledge.

I do not have Legendary Heroes, but have heard the editing was pretty bad in that one too. But Honestly, most of the books don't have an excessive problem in this area. The whole line unfortunately has kinda gotten a bad rep in this area.

I like some of the system changes and do not like others. But it Plays pretty well. RuneQuest is fun, plain and simple, and this one is no exception. Some people will like RQ2, others RQ3, and others MRQ. Is it my Favorite RQ? No. But that doesn't mean I think it is bad. I like the Original Star Wars Trilogy over the prequels but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the new ones.

And I like the Glorantha support. I was going to go into this more but have rambled on way to long already. Somebody slap me.

 

[Quire]

Pull yourself together man!

Good, that's better. Now, you were going to say something about the Glorantha support. Go ahead.

- Q

 

[Rurik]

Pull yourself together man!

Good, that's better. Now, you were going to say something about the Glorantha support. Go ahead.

- Q

Thanks man, needed that.

Got meds now, all better.

Glorantha 2A support. I like it lots - it is the main reason I've stuck with the line. GtSA rocks and Cults has been a very good book. I expected something like RQ Gods of Glorantha (and Cults is similar), but I found that very dry and devoid of flavor. Cults 1 is a much better read than GoG, and while it really only has a few more words per description than GoG Cults is much more evocative. Other than the fact that GoG was one comprehensive volume I much prefer Cults (based on Cults 1). It is clear Voriof put a lot of work into it, and that Fordy had his work cut out for him (no pun intended) fitting it into the 96 page constraint as is evidenced by the rather abrupt end to the book and lack of Index.

It occurs to me that Glorantha has pretty much always had a whole game company dedicated to it. Chaosium had other games, but they were all BRP based, and RQ was the founding father system. Every writer, editor, and artist was familiar with the material. Even in the RQ3 AH days Chaosium was writing the material at launch. Issaries was founded to support Glorantha exclusively through HeroWars/HeroQuest. Again, everyone involved with putting out material was very familair with the big G.

Mongoose on the other hand puts out a lot of different games, has many licenses, and most of the production staff is well versed in d20 and not as well versed in Glorantha as the fans who have been following it for the last, oh, 30 years or so. AH's RQ3 got off to a kinda rocky start too, but they found their way eventually too, particularly under Ken Rolston. Hmmm, whom Mongoose has access to through their Paranoia license. Can we force him out of retirement and make him oversee RQ production at spear point?

Damn, meds don't seem to be working.

Quire: can you try the cattle prod next? Thanks.