# Way for figuring Earth Force Pay (kinda long)

#### Babylon 5 Aide

##### Mongoose
Ok, I've poured over everything and haven't found anything official... So I decided that I needed to come up with the pay for EarthForce Officers. I felt that a good starting point was on the experimental rules showing that a successful business person would make 3000 a month. This is what I came up with to alter pay some based on where a person is and such. It may be a trifle long, BUT it only has to be changed when a character's status changes.

Profession + 10 * 100 = credit pay per month.

Base Pay:
3.5 for each rank
2.5 for every 2 years of service

Other Pay
+2 Deep space duty
+1 Station Pay
+1 Foreign Places Pay
+1 Separate Rations
+1 Basic Allowance for Quarters
+1 Hostile Fire Pay
+2 Clothing Allowance (once a year)

Special Pay
+1 Flight Rating Pay
+2 Senior Pilot
+3 Master Pilot
+1 Command Pilot
+2 Doctor
+1 Doctor’s Assistant

What do you all think about it?

#### LoneStranger

##### Mongoose
I think I know where you're going with this but can you provide an example to help clarify?

#### Babylon 5 Aide

##### Mongoose
For example, a pilot who has been in EarthForce for 3 years and is a Junior Lieutenant with a profession total of 4 would work out like:

3.5 * 2 for rank = 7
2.5 * 1 for rank = 2 (round down)
+2 for Deep Space Pay
+1 for being a pilot rating

13 + 10 * 100 = 2300 credits a month for that pilot.

This is assuming I did the math right (college makes you dumb I swear!)

#### Babylon 5 Aide

##### Mongoose
Ok, I need some of you lurkers to give me some input here. Someone let me know something!!!!!!!!!!

#### psyclonejack

##### Mongoose
Hmm, It seems a bit much to me. Comparing modern military pay with the National
Average. And then figuring some of the standard cost of items via the Main book.
For instance, starting pay for an officer at max is only 1,800 credits. Factoring in
the fact that Military Men/Women are stationed and garrisoned, as well as fed
they don't have many living expenses. I believe that is why most young military
men/women have such big shiny cars/trucks and lots of new expensive toys.
I know if I took out Food/House Payment/Insurance/Upkeep/Utilities from my budget
it would open a huge amount of money for me to do things with. One final point,
They made a big deal of having to pay an extra 20 credits for the 'larger' size room
on the station. Considering he was a Commander, 20 credits under your charts
would be nothing.

Just my two cents.
PsycloneJack

##### Mongoose
psyclonejack said:
They made a big deal of having to pay an extra 20 credits for the 'larger' size room on the station. Considering he was a Commander, 20 credits under your charts would be nothing.
I got the impression that it wasn't the value, it was the principle. Remember, Ivanova didn't seem upset about paying it, (well, maybe a little, but more on the annoyance lavel), while Sheridan made it a big deal...

#### Garibaldi2257

##### Mongoose
'Twas 50 credits a week...

#### Babylon 5 Aide

##### Mongoose
Well...

The reason I put it the way I did, was I went with a commander being a basic "successful professional" according to the living expendatures in the Living and Working in the Galaxy experimental rules. Makes sence to me that they would have to be paid decently...

Now, I have played with the idea of having the officer take 8 instead of 10 to represent a little less pay, but certain things should improve the pay (such as hostile fire pay) I think. I don't want the characters having chests of gold, but I do want to be fair... How often do you see a officer having money problems. The one that stands out to me isn't even a EF officer - the security guy that is in trouble for gambling.

Do we have basic pay for certain things? Such as a meal in the zocolo or something like that? The only thing I based it off of was making a commander a "successful professional."

We know it's not quite fixed... But I need some input on how to change it - anyone want to take a look? Mongoose?

#### Babylon 5 Aide

##### Mongoose
Maybe there is an idea here: don't figure in profession. Would stand to reason that a person's profession in B5 as a EF officer isn't going to help them out. THere is no haggling to be done, nothing to craft for others to buy or anything?

#### LoneStranger

##### Mongoose
yeah I'd be inclined to agree that the formula does pay a little too much money, cut that in about half and that would be better (for a start).

#### Babylon 5 Aide

##### Mongoose
Ok, I've been reading alot of JMS Speaks off of the lurker's guide... And I found something

Credits are worth about 60% of the US Dollar. Sooooooooooooooooo. I have multiplied the whole thing by .6 and it comes out pretty well....

However, it still has a captain come out less than the three grand a month that a successful professional would make. All those nights at Earharts, how do they afford it? I know they don't pay for medical... do they pay at all for quarters?

A

#### Anonymous

##### Guest
psyclonejack said:
Hmm, It seems a bit much to me. Comparing modern military pay with the National Average. And then figuring some of the standard cost of items via the Main book.
For instance, starting pay for an officer at max is only 1,800 credits. Factoring in the fact that Military Men/Women are stationed and garrisoned, as well as fed they don't have many living expenses. I believe that is why most young military men/women have such big shiny cars/trucks and lots of new expensive toys.

I actually have some experience with this.
The reason they have a lot of toys/ nice cars is they often do not have the option of living off base and for Naval personnel spend a lot of time at sea where they do not have many expenses. Imagine what you could do if you could save your entertainment budget for half the year then spend it all at once.

psyclonejack said:
I know if I took out Food/House Payment/Insurance/Upkeep/Utilities from my budget it would open a huge amount of money for me to do things with.

In the US the troops receive a housing allowance in addition to base pay. IIRC the amount is about 75% of average housing cost.

Something to remember when comparing military pay is the work load.
When at sea my average day was 10 hours working per 18 hr cycle (three shifts of 6 hrs each). In port it was 8-10 hours per normal day. In the ship yard we averaged 80 hour weeks, often 14 hours per day.

Military pay often does not reflect the responsibility either. I worked on nuclear power plants. My total pay, including meals, medical, housing, was less than half the starting pay for a civilian doing the same job. Factor in the fact I was working almost twice as many hours and isolated from the real world for months at a time my pay was JACK S#!T compared to my civilian counterpart.

You should also consider the quality of living for enlisted personel.
I spent may years living in barracks rooms 15' x 20' shared with one or two other people. On board ship our personal space was our bunk (never tall enough to sit up in) and a 2' x 2' x 3' locker.
---------------------------------------------------------------
I did some number crunching on the present US pay charts and came up with some trends.

Base pay increases 15% per pay grade
Base pay increases 5% every two years
Base pay at a given pay grade stops increasing at a point where you should have exceeded that rank. For those not familiar with the US pay grades there are 9 enlisted and 10 officer ranks. For the middle pay grades the pay stops increasing at (grade x 2) + 2 years, officers at (grade x 4) + 2 years. The lower 3 enlisted ranks should be past in less than two years so they do not get time in service pay increases. Same for the two lowest officer ranks at 3-6 years. At E-7 and O-6 there is no max pay other than 26+ years service, the number of positions at the higher pay grades is much smaller so there is no penalty for not progressing in rank.

For example a Commander (O5) with 12 years service would make
(Base x 1.15^5) x 1.05^(12years/2)

Using \$1100 as a base pay, before special duty/ deep space pay and housing, it works out to \$2900 per month.

Based on US Navy pay charts I would assign the following special pay expressed as a percentage of base pay.

Space pay (ship or station) 12 % enlisted, 8 % officers
Deep space pay (expected deployments of > 9 months per year) 10%
Hazardous duty 10% enlisted 5% officer
Pilot 10%
Imminent danger/ hostile fire pay 10% enlisted, 5% officer

The above character assigned as a pilot on B5 (space, pilot, hostile fire) would make about \$3600 per month plus housing and meals.

#### JaI

##### Mongoose
Base pay increases 15% per pay grade
Base pay increases 5% every two years
Base pay at a given pay grade stops increasing at a point where you should have exceeded that rank. For those not familiar with the US pay grades there are 9 enlisted and 10 officer ranks. For the middle pay grades the pay stops increasing at (grade x 2) + 2 years, officers at (grade x 4) + 2 years. The lower 3 enlisted ranks should be past in less than two years so they do not get time in service pay increases. Same for the two lowest officer ranks at 3-6 years. At E-7 and O-6 there is no max pay other than 26+ years service, the number of positions at the higher pay grades is much smaller so there is no penalty for not progressing in rank.

For example a Commander (O5) with 12 years service would make
(Base x 1.15^5) x 1.05^(12years/2)

Using \$1100 as a base pay, before special duty/ deep space pay and housing, it works out to \$2900 per month.

Based on US Navy pay charts I would assign the following special pay expressed as a percentage of base pay.

Space pay (ship or station) 12 % enlisted, 8 % officers
Deep space pay (expected deployments of > 9 months per year) 10%
Hazardous duty 10% enlisted 5% officer
Pilot 10%
Imminent danger/ hostile fire pay 10% enlisted, 5% officer

The above character assigned as a pilot on B5 (space, pilot, hostile fire) would make about \$3600 per month plus housing and meals.

Whaoo, that sound like really professionnal 8).

I haven't the french real reference, but I know than military have a difference between operation and standard affectation.

Military have a base salary, plus a monthly allocation for housing (but for single, they are encouraged to use base's facilities) and meals (take at mess), three times by year the receive a special allocation for military clothing and equipement replacement.
In case of operation service, they receive a supplementary allocation for "operation work", plus a "danger" prime (if applicable), the meal allocation if grow up (but they need repaid to army their campagne's lunch; in any case, the difference between price and allocation is favorable to them).
When they made some "special" activities in addition to their original affectation (like week warden officer - I don't know the equivalent name in english, so this is a litteral translation)
I think than, for pilots, they receive a complementary allocation on each fly.

Do make a comparison between this model and the Babylon 5 reality, the Commander Sinclair, and the Babylon's staff, are in standard assignement, but Liannar Kemmer (ep. Survivor) is in operation.
The army provide housing, army clothes and equipements (link to the work) replacement, and 1 meal + plus breakfeast (or diner) at mess by day.

JaI

#### psyclonejack

##### Mongoose
Unknown Guest said:
Military pay often does not reflect the responsibility either. I worked on nuclear power plants. My total pay, including meals, medical, housing, was less than half the starting pay for a civilian doing the same job. Factor in the fact I was working almost twice as many hours and isolated from the real world for months at a time my pay was JACK S#!T compared to my civilian counterpart.

To the Guest that posted,

I did not mean through my post to imply that military were overpaid, nor did I mean to imply they had it easy. But, the military does have advantages, and those are the main reasons people still are recruited. The men and women that die to help keep a country free and safe do not get the benefits, payment, or glory they truly deserve. Judging by your post you have served and I thank you for your service to your country. God Bless you For it.

But, let me make my point. I have family that is retired military. They have pensions that I will never have by working in the private sector. They have income from rental property that they purchased with the 6month to a year moneys they saved by living on base. And they invested into retirement plans. Lets just say that they take home over \$5000 a month for doing nothing. What's more both are still young enough that they hold full time jobs, so you can ad that income into the mix. The point is, you can see the military has big perks, because they don't have the same expenses as the private sector.

Unknown Guest said:
The reason they have a lot of toys/ nice cars is they often do not have the option of living off base and for Naval personnel spend a lot of time at sea where they do not have many expenses. Imagine what you could do if you could save your entertainment budget for half the year then spend it all at once.

My point exactly, the men and women serving in the military do not have alot of the expenses that the private sector has. The quality of life is not as high either, but the money that the "young" men and women receive sends some of them into a buying frenzy where they go wild with the money they have saved up over 6 months. New cars, bikes, trucks, snowmobiles, computers, tv's, etc. Especially when they get signing bonuses to re-enlist after their tours of duty. One friend told me he recieved a \$10,000 signing bonus. For someone who does not know how to budget money, you can see the spending sprees this would cause. But back to B5.

Unknown Guest said:
The above character assigned as a pilot on B5 (space, pilot, hostile fire) would make about \$3600 per month plus housing and meals.

A private sector person working on B5, as an average Job Pilot. Would, by your own admission, make double. Therefore we could say that the pay would be \$7200 a month base. And figure in the proper amounts for meals and housing on B5. Since B5 housing is so expensive the person would have to be making what? \$12,000 a month? With that line of thinking, he could work 3 years and retire for life back on earth.

Sorry I just see it as too much credits in game terms . . . we need some more prices to figure out specifics.

PsycloneJack

#### LoneStranger

##### Mongoose
In that case how's about this for a compromise, take the base pay calculations and cut those in half, then look at the bonuses suggested by the guest as well as the pay raises based on time in, then you don't have to worry about paying for your quarters or meals unless you want something outside of the mess hall and take it from there. That's about the best middle ground I can come up with out of all this.

I say the base calculation should be cut in half is because you don't really hear too much about rich military personnel and with them not paying for where they live they'll still have enough money to work with.

Something to consider at least.

#### Lane Shutt

##### Mongoose
psyclonejack said:
But, let me make my point. I have family that is retired military. They have pensions that I will never have by working in the private sector.

Yes , after 20 years they get a pension. Relatively few people stay in that long.

The private sector still has jobs that offer pensions, generally union jobs.
Other companies offer retirement savings plans which both the employee and company contribute to.

psyclonejack said:
A private sector person working on B5, as an average Job Pilot. Would, by your own admission, make double. Therefore we could say that the pay would be \$7200 a month base. And figure in the proper amounts for meals and housing on B5. Since B5 housing is so expensive the person would have to be making what? \$12,000 a month? With that line of thinking, he could work 3 years and retire for life back on earth.

PsycloneJack

Since I was the unknown guest I should clarify this a bit.

Officer pay is much closer to average civilian pay but IMHO still a bit low for the level of responsibility. It take an enilisted man 6-8 years to reach the starting base pay of an O1.

Who on B5 is a Commander and flight rated?
What business man on B5 has equal responsibility?

Here is a real world example from my Navy Reserve unit.

Our CO is a Commander (O5) and has overall responsibility for a Naval Construction Battalion.
In civilian terms he runs a construction company employing over 750 people. The company is capable of surveying a job site, planning the job and constructing both buildings and roads. We have a fleet of construction and cargo vehicles (IIRC over 150 pieces) maintained in house. We also have a shipping and receiving department authorized to make contracts for raw materials with local suppliers in addition to the normal military supply system. We have administration and food service people as well.
His Base Pay + Housing and Food allowances (assuming 14 years service) on active duty would be about \$90,000. Not much compared to his civilian counterparts.

Back to B5 terms, a covilian counterpart to Sheridan or Sinclair probably could retire to Earth after a few years. In fact by the time they reached that level they could retire with a decent standard of living..

--
Lane Shutt

#### Babylon 5 Aide

##### Mongoose
If you were referring to commander and flight qualified, I meant command qualified for piloting. This is based on a number of things, one of which is flight time.

#### Kargool

##### Mongoose
Are there made any tables for the wage system?

Im a new B5 GM that needs to find out how much the players earn.

#### Kizarvexis

##### Mongoose
Kargool said:
Are there made any tables for the wage system?

Im a new B5 GM that needs to find out how much the players earn.

The Earthforce Campaign Book has a pay table on page 76. This book has everything you ever wanted to know about character's in Earthforce or to run an Earthforce campaign.

On other pay fronts, the Psi-Corp book has Commercial Teep services and costs on pages 28 through 34. It has other Psi-Corp pay on pages 90 & 91.

The Zocalo has Professional Services costs, (ie pay) from pages 60 to 69.

There are probably other pay tables I'm missing and I'm sure someone else will chime in.

Kizarvexis

#### Kargool

##### Mongoose
Kizarvexis said:

Argh. Okay, I guess I should ask if bumping is allowed, or if someone gives you the evil eye for bumping threads.

Im just used to the search option when I look for things.

Thanks for your tips. I told my local gameshop to put thoose three books on layby for me

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