WaW stuff

[n815e]

Pistol stats?
Why is the panzerfaust slow instead of one shot?
Where is the rear mg on the KV1?
Barbed wire?
Panzerfausts for Russians?
Tokarev semi-auto rifle?
Mine dogs?
How do you handle tanks overrunning guns?
How do you handle shooting at a Goliath?
Shermans for Soviets?
Grenade launchers for the Germans?

 

[Itkovian]

Can't speak for all of these, but I'll leave that to Agis

however the rear Mg was deleted on later marks of the KV1

Russian Mine dogs were not in use in 44/45 (for a good reason, they were more of a menace to the user than the enemy!)

As a guess the Panzerfaust is SL because generally you see blokes running around with several of the damn things!

 

[hegemon]

personelly i don't see why pistols should be included as a stat'ed weapon, I think that they would come under the Close combat stat for a soldier.

 

[n815e]

I've never seen a picture of a soldier or a model with more than one panzerfaust. The things are big to be carrying around more than one, plus rifle and kit.
Lots of models are only armed with pistols, especially officers.
I've never seen a KV1 model or picture without rear mg.

 

[Shadow4ce]

I've never seen a picture of a soldier or a model with more than one panzerfaust. The things are big to be carrying around more than one, plus rifle and kit.

I have not seen any pictures of soldiers carrying more than one. But models? Well, here ya go:

Forces of Valor German SS Cavalry Division - 1942

The second guy in from the right is either carrying two panzerfausts, or he has been modifying grenades way beyond recommended specifications. :lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW I totally agree they should be a one-shot deal for your stated reasons.

I only show the pic of a model where it exists to reinforce my point-of-view re: your pistol argument:

Lots of models are only armed with pistols, especially officers.

Lots of models... I'll give you, but Real-life soldiers who didn't follow the old axiom, "Never bring a pistol (as your main weapon) to a gunfight" didn't live long enough to see the end of the war.

Personally, hegemon nailed this one down good enough for me:

personelly i don't see why pistols should be included as a stat'ed weapon, I think that they would come under the Close combat stat for a soldier.

I'm just going to consider those pea-shooters to be part of CC. 8)

PS I'd bet my life-savings every person who fought in WWII knew they were going to a real gunfight, and those who had only pistols were wishing they had something bigger as soon as the bullets started snapping by their head. As a Law Enforcement Officer, I carry a variant of the model 1911 caliber .45 pistol 24/7. But when I know I'm going to what may potentially turn into a real gunfight, I also bring Mr. Assault Rifle/Carbine/SMG or Mr. Shotgun. :wink:

 

[MongooseMatt]

[As a Law Enforcement Officer, I carry a variant of the model 1911 caliber .45 pistol 24/7. But when I know I'm going to what may potentially turn into a real gunfight, I also bring Mr. Assault Rifle/Carbine/SMG or Mr. Shotgun. :wink:

Now I have an image of you going to the boot (trunk) of your car.

'Got my pistol, check, what else will I need? Hmm, SMG a bit too small - think I'll go with the shotgun. Now, what about grenades. . ?'

 

[Shadow4ce]

LOL! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Now, what about grenades. . ?'

Diversionary (Flash-Bangs) or O.C. (Pepper-Spray)?

 

[Agis]

Some answer from my point of view (and I try to be as short as you):
Pistol stats?
>Most NCOs in late War used SMGs. If you isist obn using them take this stat: Range: 6", Damage Die: D6

Why is the panzerfaust slow instead of one shot?
> More then one could be carried, game effect is more or less the same.

Where is the rear mg on the KV1?
> Left out for sake of simplicity.

Barbed wire?
> Tread as difficult terrain.

Panzerfausts for Russians?
> No. Feel free to use them via house rule as captured equipment.

Tokarev semi-auto rifle?
> Left out, to rarely used.

Mine dogs?
> Included in draft, might appear in S&P.

How do you handle tanks overrunning guns?
> Charge action.

How do you handle shooting at a Goliath?
> As any other mini. If it is in a FZ allocate DD etc.

Shermans for Soviets?
> No - did not wanted the land lease effect to be too strong.

Grenade launchers for the Germans?
> No - got already eneough equipment and was less useful in late war.

 

[n815e]

The second guy in from the right is either carrying two panzerfausts, or he has been modifying grenades way beyond recommended specifications.

:lol:

How do you handle shooting at a Goliath?
> As any other mini. If it is in a FZ allocate DD etc.

I didn't see 'stats' for it, such as Target, Save, Kill. Are they in the book?

Why is the panzerfaust slow instead of one shot?
> More then one could be carried, game effect is more or less the same.

What if I wanted to make it one-shot? Knock it down to 20(?) points?

How do you handle tanks overrunning guns?
> Charge action.

I'm thinking gun instantaneously destroyed. Would you agree?

Shermans for Soviets?
> No - did not wanted the land lease effect to be too strong.

Will we see these in the future?

Thanks for responding. I'm sure more questions will follow.

Personally, I think the first book is great as a beginning, but I'd like to see more comprehensive force lists. I think this would be more important than an 'advanced' rules book to release and would go a long way to selling the game.
It would certainly bring the game more in line with other games at this level, such as Rules of Engagement or Disposable Heroes (those two being the most popular platoon-level rules I've encountered).

 

[Agis]

I didn't see 'stats' for it, such as Target, Save, Kill. Are they in the book?
>>> All in the book! Example: P. 73 The stat line under Soldier: GOLIATH!!! :shock:

What if I wanted to make it one-shot? Knock it down to 20(?) points?
>>> Remains the same. In almost every testgame the Pzfaust mini is dead after he shoots at a tank. And since he can onyl shoot 1x per turn...
It really is the same.

I'm thinking gun instantaneously destroyed. Would you agree?
>>> No! There are no stats for the gun! If you kill all soldiers manning the gun remove the gunmodel also.

Will we see these in the future?
>>> Honestly - if you want to use them just take the US stats.

Personally, I think the first book is great as a beginning, but I'd like to see more comprehensive force lists.

>>> Even more? For the basic rulebook? :shock:
Let us take a look:
You get the following army list:
British Army Infantry
British Army Paratroopers
British Army Commandos
German Wehrmacht Grenadiers and Panzergrenadiers
German Waffen-SS
German Fallschirmjäger
Soviet Infantry and Motor Rifles
Soviet Tank Desant
United States Infantry and Armoured Infantry
United States Paratroopers

PLUS the following vehicles/ planes:
British and Commonwealth
AEC Mk III
Bedford Truck
Bofors 40mm AA Portee
Universal Carrier
Daimler Dingo MkII scout car
Humber Scout Car
M3 Halftrack
Wasp Flamethrower
Achilles Tank Destroyer
Churchill Crocodile Infantry Tank
Churchill VII Infantry Tank
Cromwell VII Cruiser Tank
Sherman Firefl y VC Medium Tank
Sherman III Medium Tank
Hawker Typhoon IB

German
8.8cm FlaK 35/36 Heavy AA/AT Dual Purpose Gun
Kübelwagen
Nebelwerfer 41
Opel Blitz Medium Truck
SdKfz 222
Sdkfz 250/1 Neu Halftrack
Sdkfz 250/7 Neu Mortar Halftrack
Sdkfz 250/8 Neu ‚Stummel‘ Halftrack
Sdkfz 250/9 Neu Halftrack
SdKfz 251/1 Halftrack
SdKfz 251/7 Pionier Halftrack
Sdkfz 251/9 Stummel Halftrack
SdKfz 251/10 Halftrack
Wirbelwind Medium Anti Aircraft Tank
Jagdpanzer 38 Hetzer Tankhunter
Jagdpanzer IV/70 Tankhunter
Jagdpanzer V Jagdpanther Tankhunter
PzKmpf IV Ausf. H Tank
PzKpfw V Panther Ausf. G Tank
PzKpfw VI Tiger I Ausf. E Tank
PzKpfw VI Tiger II Königstiger Tank
Sturmgeschütz StuG III G Assault Gun
Focke Wulf Fw 190–A8

Soviet
BA–64 scout car
GAZ–67
GAZAAA–37 Truck
M3 Halftrack
Soviet Medium Truck
Iosif Stalin 2 Tank
KV–1C Heavy Tank
SU–85 Tankhunter
SU–100 Tankhunter
T–34/43 Tank
T–34/85 Tank
Ilyushin Sturmovik II–2

US
Jeep
M16 AA MGMC
M20 Scout Car
M3 Halftrack
M8 Armoured Car
Medium Truck
M10 Wolverine Tank Destroyer
M18 Hellcat Tank Destroyer
M24 Chaffee Light Tank
M4A1(76) W Sherman Medium Tank
M4A3 Sherman Medium Tank
M4A3E2 (76) Jumbo Sherman Medium Tank
P–47D Thunderbolt

Compare this with the lists and vehicles you get in the rulebook of Rules of Engagement or Disposable Heroes... :wink:
Disposable Heroes (A really great game too, BTW!), 55 pages for GBP 8,00:
German Grenadier list, Pz IV, Panther, Stuka
US Infantry list, Sherman, Hellcat, Thunderbolt
Soviet Infantry, T34, SU 85, Ba-64, Su-2
British Infantry list, Firefly, Cromwell, Typhoon :?

What is your problem? :wink: :wink: :wink:

 

[Hiromoon]

I demand more, Agis! MORE! Then I will sweep the Red menance back into the steppes where they belong!

MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

But seriously.... Give us more. Please?

Also, where's the stats for the MG-34? Or do we just use generic MG stats for it?

 

[hegemon]

Could we get some stats for the bf109? puh-leeeeeeease

 

[n815e]

didn't see 'stats' for it, such as Target, Save, Kill. Are they in the book?
>>> All in the book! Example: P. 73 The stat line under Soldier: GOLIATH!!!

I'm thinking gun instantaneously destroyed. Would you agree?
>>> No! There are no stats for the gun! If you kill all soldiers manning the gun remove the gunmodel also.

Tanks sometimes rushed guns to destroy them, but the crews didn't just stick around to get run over!

Compare this with the lists and vehicles you get in the rulebook of Rules of Engagement or Disposable Heroes...

I did write 'great beginning', which I think it is. But DH has got supplements and RoE is supported with additional material, as well.
Like Hiromoon, I want more!

Seriously, I enjoy games that finely balance historical accuracy and playability. You are off to a good start, but it would be nice to have all the corners filled in.

 

[Agis]

I just wanted to point out that the above mentioned other books had less in their iniatial ruleset but somehow NOBODY complained about lack of units or army lists.
All the opposite with WaW; EVERYBODY seem to complain that vehicle X or weapon Y is missing...

BIG sigh...

 

[Agis]

snip
Also, where's the stats for the MG-34? Or do we just use generic MG stats for it?

The difference between the MG 34 and 42 was not that big, just use the 42 stats.

 

[hegemon]

dont take my request as a complaint, as i love the book and the game,

Agis, have you thought of doing an airpower supplement, something that beefs out the air choices, maybe really adding things to the raf and the luftwaffer and all the others.

 

[Hiromoon]

I just wanted to point out that the above mentioned other books had less in their iniatial ruleset but somehow NOBODY complained about lack of units or army lists.
All the opposite with WaW; EVERYBODY seem to complain that vehicle X or weapon Y is missing...

BIG sigh...

That's because nobody was playing those games initially. Seriously though, you're bringing your pony and cart to the show, and it's a newbie on the block while there's other games that have been here a while, with all the optional extras (head lights, window wipers, cup bolders, etc.) currently in the list.

Course, we're also greedy and it should be a testimate to how much we like your work that we demand more of it. Trust me, I know how this is (*points to SST v1 cards*).

 

[Agis]

dont take my request as a complaint, as i love the book and the game,

Agis, have you thought of doing an airpower supplement, something that beefs out the air choices, maybe really adding things to the raf and the luftwaffer and all the others.

No, no. I did not take it as acomplain, I was more refering to some very unpleasant Mongoose bashing on the TMP Message boards. :evil:

Airpower: This is something Matt is very keen to do. IIRC he will work on an Airpower supplement.

For me: Since the Pacific War supplement is drafted and written, I want to do a vehicle companion
Basically a book with all the vehicles that are featured in all DH supplements COMBINED and RoE plus some in one book! Early to late war.
The whole project depends very much on my real world workload and the form of the Mongoose open content agreement, but I have already started.

 

[hegemon]

dont take my request as a complaint, as i love the book and the game,

Agis, have you thought of doing an airpower supplement, something that beefs out the air choices, maybe really adding things to the raf and the luftwaffer and all the others.

No, no. I did not take it as acomplain, I was more refering to some very unpleasant Mongoose bashing on the TMP Message boards. :evil:
I think that all the bashing there doing is unfounded, you've done a good job Agis and Matt

Airpower: This is something Matt is very keen to do. IIRC he will work on an Airpower supplement.
Airpower Supp awesome

For me: Since the Pacific War supplement is drafted and written, I want to do a vehicle companion
Basically a book with all the vehicles that are featured in all DH supplements COMBINED and RoE plus some in one book! Early to late war.
The whole project depends very much on my real world workload and the form of the Mongoose open content agreement, but I have already started.
Great can't wait for more W@W goodness, if you ever need a playtester let me know

 

[Hiromoon]

Well, you're still coming in as the last horse in the show. I took a look at the Rules of Engagement website... they got Finns. Finns! And Soviets... Flames of War, while not a skirmish game (thought technically since you're dealing with a small portion of a battlefield it could be considered a skirmish in military terms), does have all your little optional extras like different models of the Panzer mk IV.... I mean, were's our flame throwing panzer, Agis? Or our artillery spotting panzer? How about our remote controlled panzer? Come on! Please? Pretty please?