Victory at Sea – Some Rule Mechanics Ideas

[Digger]

I would like to run some ideas past you guys to see what you think about the following.

Ship Hull Values – I would like to suggest that the following are the hull values for the different classes of ship:

Frigate = 6
Light Destroyer = 7
Destroyer = 8
Light Cruiser = 9
Cruiser = 10
Heavy Cruiser = 11
Battleship/Aircraft Carrier = 12

I know that these sound high, but if you read on you will see how this works.

Ranging Shots – As we know, most ships when the open fire on another ship with guns, rarely hit the first time (I am assuming here that we are talking WW2 and prior). They would employ ranging fire to determine the fall of shot. My proposal is basically that the longer a ship continues to fire upon an opponent, the greater the chance to hit, Therefore:

Opening Round = +0

1st Round of Firing at Same Target = +2

2nd Round of Firing at Same Target = +4

3rd Round of Firing at Same Target = +6

And so on up to a maximum of +10. Ships would get a reduced bonus if they were splitting their fire between ships, e.g. forward turret firing at one target, rear turret firing at another; the ship would get +1 on the front turret target and +1 on the rear turret target, up to a maximum of +5. Fire cannot be split on an individual turret.

Range Bands – I would propose 4 range bands based on the maximum range of the gun. The range bonuses would be as follows:

Maximum Range = +0

75% of Maximum Range = +1

50% of Maximum Range = +2

25% of Maximum Range = +3

Roll Over of Sixes – When using these rules it would seem that no ship could damage a another ship in the first round, but what about the lucky shot (HMS Hood)? Well, I would propose if you roll a natural six on the dice, you re-roll again and add that resulting number to your total, up to a maximum of 3 consecutive sixes.

So how would this play out? Okay we have two ships, HMS Lucky, Frigate and HMS Nasty Bastard a Battleship. HMS Lucky has a single 6” Gun with a range of 12”, whilst HMS Nasty Bastard has 3 turrets, each sporting 3 x 12” Guns with a range of 20”.

As the ships close, HMS Nasty Bastard (HMS NB) opens up at maximum range and misses with all his dice. Meanwhile HMS Lucky (HMS L) is closing fast and will soon reach her maximum range. The second round; HMS NB fires again, but this time gets a +2 to hit and as both ships are moving towards each other, they have closed a range bracket; giving HMS NB another +1, a total of +3. Amazingly, HMS NB only hits with one round doing damage. Meanwhile, HMS L is now in range and opens fire. She rolls a 6! She isn’t called HMS Lucky for nothing! And then rolls another 6, and finally rolls a 4, giving a total of 16. She hits doing minor damage to HMS NB. However, this is the last of her luck.

The next round, the ships have closed still further and HMS NB calculates his bonus: 2 rounds of firing at the same target, +4; range at 50% of maximum, +2; a total bonus of +6. He opens fire with all nine guns on HMS L and she is blown from the water.

Your comments and ideas would be appreciated,

Digger.

 

[chaos0xomega]

Haven't teh rules already been written up and sent off to the publishers?

 

[Agis]

Haven't teh rules already been written up and sent off to the publishers?

Yes, I am as amazed about this proposal as you seem to be.
The rules are done and a drastic change like Digger is suggesting is not going to happen soon...

@Digger: Are these proposals for house rules?

 

[Digger]

Hi There,

These are only suggestions for house rules, they are not canon. In fact I doubt if anyone from Mongoose has read this thread let alone looked at this as an idea!

 

[anton970]

its got potential digger, the only problem I'd have would be the housekeeping so I knew who had shot at what in the previous turn, and on tihs basis for small games i.e. a couple of ships per side no probs but 5+ points on either side and you'll need a PA to do your admin!

 

[DM]

Its not that difficult really. I use shell splash markers with my 1/3000 pre-dreadnought rules. The markers are rectangular with the splash itself at one end and the name of the firing ship added as well (or a numerical indication). Markers are p[ut alongside ships when you fire at them. If the marker has the splash away from the target it is under fire, but not straddled. If the marker is placed so that the splash is next to the ship tat indicates a straddle. The splash markers really do give an impresion of ships under fire as well.

 

[E Nicely]

I would like to run some ideas past you guys to see what you think about the following.

Ship Hull Values – I would like to suggest that the following are the hull values for the different classes of ship:

Frigate = 6
Light Destroyer = 7
Destroyer = 8
Light Cruiser = 9
Cruiser = 10
Heavy Cruiser = 11
Battleship/Aircraft Carrier = 12

I know that these sound high, but if you read on you will see how this works.

Ranging Shots – As we know, most ships when the open fire on another ship with guns, rarely hit the first time (I am assuming here that we are talking WW2 and prior). They would employ ranging fire to determine the fall of shot. My proposal is basically that the longer a ship continues to fire upon an opponent, the greater the chance to hit, Therefore:

Opening Round = +0

1st Round of Firing at Same Target = +2

2nd Round of Firing at Same Target = +4

3rd Round of Firing at Same Target = +6

And so on up to a maximum of +10. Ships would get a reduced bonus if they were splitting their fire between ships, e.g. forward turret firing at one target, rear turret firing at another; the ship would get +1 on the front turret target and +1 on the rear turret target, up to a maximum of +5. Fire cannot be split on an individual turret.

Range Bands – I would propose 4 range bands based on the maximum range of the gun. The range bonuses would be as follows:

Maximum Range = +0

75% of Maximum Range = +1

50% of Maximum Range = +2

25% of Maximum Range = +3

Roll Over of Sixes – When using these rules it would seem that no ship could damage a another ship in the first round, but what about the lucky shot (HMS Hood)? Well, I would propose if you roll a natural six on the dice, you re-roll again and add that resulting number to your total, up to a maximum of 3 consecutive sixes.

So how would this play out? Okay we have two ships, HMS Lucky, Frigate and HMS Nasty Bastard a Battleship. HMS Lucky has a single 6” Gun with a range of 12”, whilst HMS Nasty Bastard has 3 turrets, each sporting 3 x 12” Guns with a range of 20”.

As the ships close, HMS Nasty Bastard (HMS NB) opens up at maximum range and misses with all his dice. Meanwhile HMS Lucky (HMS L) is closing fast and will soon reach her maximum range. The second round; HMS NB fires again, but this time gets a +2 to hit and as both ships are moving towards each other, they have closed a range bracket; giving HMS NB another +1, a total of +3. Amazingly, HMS NB only hits with one round doing damage. Meanwhile, HMS L is now in range and opens fire. She rolls a 6! She isn’t called HMS Lucky for nothing! And then rolls another 6, and finally rolls a 4, giving a total of 16. She hits doing minor damage to HMS NB. However, this is the last of her luck.

The next round, the ships have closed still further and HMS NB calculates his bonus: 2 rounds of firing at the same target, +4; range at 50% of maximum, +2; a total bonus of +6. He opens fire with all nine guns on HMS L and she is blown from the water.

Your comments and ideas would be appreciated,

Digger.

You've given this some thought Digger. Hull isn't Hull in VaS like it is in CTA it's Armor value. I think that's the value your first table represents. For your rules mod to work you'll have to play all of them, I think over Armor 8 it would be impossible to hit under standard rules. What you've written has some merit, rewrite and playtest them after the game is released (you'll need to know the full rules first) and post your conclusions.

But definitely try playing VaS "as is" in the rulebook first. I think you'll like it straight out of the can. :wink:

 

[Hugbiel]

I see some oddity's with this rule :

The value is based on the same scale as armor value witch is more opposed by armor percing than difficulty to hit the target.

A smaller and faster ship should be hit less than a bigger, slower battleship.

Range is the main parameter, It affect both AP and miss : at point blank range a ship will never miss and be at is max AP value.

With ship moving around 20knt it is unlikly that they stay at the same relative position and that the bonus for firing on the same target will change for more than 3 round.

IMHO Carrier haven't the same durability as gun ship ( they are bigger and need more armor to achieve the same protection ) And There more than one class of carrier : an escort carrier is more like a cruiser when a fleet carrier is more like a battleship.

We may need some rule to cover some specificity : WWI having max range reduced by armor but still as efficient as gun with longer ranges, battlecruiser ( Hood ) and fast cruiser ( some italian ) with less armor value against longs ranges shoots

But I thing we need to see the rules before trying to bend them further.

 

[E Nicely]

But I thing we need to see the rules before trying to bend them further.

Exactly.

 

[Soulmage]

While I understand the thinking behind this rule set, I agree with others that it needs to be harder to hit smaller ships, but harder to damage more heavily armored ships.

I think the core rules in VaS address that issue just fine, even if it doesn't really address the issue of ranging fire. That's something that really isn't needed all that much IMO. There are plenty of "simulation" games out there that try to replicate to extreme levels of detail. Ranging fire is probably something to far in that direction. A lot of complication, for not much enhancement in terms of fun game play.

Plus, as others have pointed out. . . its way way too late to be suggesting fundamental rules changes! LOL!!