Victim Stats

[rgrove0172]

Just a question to you GMs out there. Do you actually draw up stats for your minor NPCs that are essentially victims of some sort or extras in the game? For example, the typical damsel in distress - noble's daughter type. No, she isnt secretly a hot little spitfire that knows how to use a sword or knife or has any other sort of really useful skills - She's a thigh grabbing, pouty-faced, sexy little extra for the heroes to rescue and thats it. So, do you bother making up stats, or just roleplay her in your game to best advantage?

 

[Da Boss]

I would just roleplay charcters like that - I try to use as few stats as possible!

 

[SnowDog]

I have yet to run Conan, so I can't tell But this leads to a question that have been floating around my mind. How should I treat for example merchants or other civilians? I don't think that there are actual classes for them in Conan RPG...

 

[Ichabod]

Answer the latter question, there's the commoner class for NPCs.

To the first question, NPCs only need to have numbers for something that affects play. Even major NPCs don't need everything written out, they can be fleshed out as needed. Hell, we lost a character sheet for a PC who is now a NPC, rather than spend the time trying to nail every number, just make stuff up until it's necessary to be more specific.

It allows for some flexibility too. Maybe you really need someone to have a particular skill, feat, or language.

 

[rgrove0172]

Thanks, thats an aspect of d20 I suppose Im only now realizing. Typically when learning the rules you get the feeling every character has to match up on the PC format with skills, attributes, Hit Points and Feats etc. all "legally" generated. What Im hearing from some discussions with d20 players elsewhere is that NPCs dont necessarily have to fit that well. Generally you just make them up as you need them. Expecially in Conan where their level and ability doesnt effect experience or whatever. Throwing down some stats and just playing them as you see them is apparently a common practice amoung GMs. This notion is going to make my game a lot simpler to manage. Ive been spending WAY to much time working out NPCs.

 

[Auggie]

Depending on what my adventure calls for, I'll make up a 'bare-bones' stat sheet for a particular NPC. Also, using generic stats offered online as well as in suppliments and other adventures is a good alternative, as well.

 

[argo]

I'm a big fan of "no-stats" GM'ing. I've got waaaayyy better things to do with my limited ammount of game-prep time than to waste it writing up complete stat-blocks for barmaids and blacksmiths.

In terms of game mechanics, stats allow the person who is statted to affect the game world. Ergo, the only characters who need stats are those who could potentially affect the game world.

For example, I've got one NPC who is in the game to be the PC's hook into meeting the rebel undergound and their liason afterward. In my notes he has a Name, a physical description and notes that he is reasonably intelligent, very observant, patient and dedicated to the cause. However my notes also state that, aside from knowing the people he knows, he is utterly average in every way. He has no stats. He is an important character but I knew from the start he will never actually do anything. His success or failure will be dependent on the PC's actions.

I also make liberal use of "generic" stat blocks for guardsmen, bandits, etc. Mooks can affect the game world by virtue of combat with the PC's but they by no means deserve the loving attention of a personalized stat-block. Sometimes, if I'm in a rush I will even skip the skills and special abilities section of a mook! I don't care how many ranks you have in climb vs ride when you will be meeting the PC's in the hall outside the wizard's bedchamber and will, if you're lucky, be on-screen for two minutes.

Hope that helps.

 

[argo]

I have yet to run Conan, so I can't tell But this leads to a question that have been floating around my mind. How should I treat for example merchants or other civilians? I don't think that there are actual classes for them in Conan RPG...

Assuming that you do want the "civilian" to have stats (see my last post) then there is nothing wrong with using PC classes. Just make their level appropriate to how cool they are. A level 1 or level 2 NPC is very uncool. IMC your "average Joe" will be level 3 or 4.

If that is still too much coolness for your NPC then try the Expert class (its in the SRD). Lots of skillpoints for things like Knowledge and Profession and not much else. Waste a few feats on Skill Focus (Appriase) and you are golden.

And if that is still too much coolness... then I suggest you read my last post one more time and ask yourself again if Farmer Hayseed and Merchant Lardass really need a stat block.

I loathe the Commoner class for exactly this reason. That class is designed to make sure that your NPC comes out uncool and incapable of doing much of anything. But the existance of the class encourages GM's to waste their time statting up Level 1 Commoners with average ability scores. :evil:

If the NPC isn't cool enough to deserve levels of a PC class then he probably isn't cool enough to deserve a stat block in the first place.

 

[Dpetroc]

Thanks, thats an aspect of d20 I suppose Im only now realizing. Typically when learning the rules you get the feeling every character has to match up on the PC format with skills, attributes, Hit Points and Feats etc. all "legally" generated. What Im hearing from some discussions with d20 players elsewhere is that NPCs dont necessarily have to fit that well. Generally you just make them up as you need them. Expecially in Conan where their level and ability doesnt effect experience or whatever. Throwing down some stats and just playing them as you see them is apparently a common practice amoung GMs. This notion is going to make my game a lot simpler to manage. Ive been spending WAY to much time working out NPCs.

As I mentioned in our other discussion, as a rule I agree with this -- 'random encounters', Joe Pirate, Merchant on the corner. However, if you are crafting an antagonist, you should try to make the scales balance at least a bit. When you are creating someone on the fly, sure -- make 'em up. But an opponent that might the the culmination of a night's adventuring, or the denoument of the adventure should be well-crafted. And at least, mostly fair. I think that's the GM's responsibility.

 

[rgrove0172]

What would you consider mostly fair? Do the skill levels need to adhere to the actual skill points they would have gained based on INT and level? Do the number of feats have to match up with level and class. Do their attack and defense values have to match up to class bases, atribute bonuses and such? How much is fair?

 

[Dpetroc]

What would you consider mostly fair? Do the skill levels need to adhere to the actual skill points they would have gained based on INT and level? Do the number of feats have to match up with level and class. Do their attack and defense values have to match up to class bases, atribute bonuses and such? How much is fair?

Major opponents should be created and statted out just like a PC. Unless there is an overriding reason not to, I think GM's should treat that like any other aspect of campaign creation. Minor or incidental characters can be 'winged', and in most cases random interactions don't even warrant that much. I think it is fair that the major opponents the players face aren't ad hoc. NPC's who will impact the plot significantly get written up from the ground up by me.

Hey, if you can create major opponents on the fly, and keep those encounters consistent game to game -- great for you. I think it can be unfair to players though.

 

[rgrove0172]

Well I certainly wouldnt even try to appear overly capable when it comes to d20, Im still a newbie. Ive been gaming for close on 25 years so I tend to come off a bit opinionated at times but Ill admit I just a rookie where this system is concerned.

I guess where we differ is in your concept of "fair". What is fair? The GM has complete control over the nature of the world as it appears to the players and naturally he/she will tend to be more fair than random occurance is likely to be. If the characters encounter a group of desert raiders, whats to stop the little party of 3 from encountering a hundred enemies? It certainly a possibility. Normally the GM would not allow this to happen as it wouldnt be much fun for the players, BUT - perhaps the intent is to make them run away, which leads to a great plot element and even MORE fun. Similarly just because an NPC appears to hold an edge, doesnt necessarily mean its unfair to the players. He's the captain of the King's Guard for God's sake, he's suppose to be a bad-a$$. Granted, your 2nd level players probably shouldnt confront him openly, but merely placing him in the game is not inherently "unfair", the players will simply have to deal with him in some other way.

I guess I dont buy into the whole D&D - gaging opponants by player character level thing. Life isnt fair, nor should your game be.

 

[Prof.Dogg]

I believe the answer totally depends on you & your group's preferred style of play. Not statting out NPCs can be incredibly annoying to players who dislike GM meta-gaming. However, my solution to that kind of group is to have "sterotype" stats fleshed out.

The download on the Conan site that shows a breakdown of your average thugs and theives is handy there. But for the commoners, just have a common stat layout (8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 or even just all 10's) sorted appropriately, throw in appropriate skill points and add feats appropriate to the profession (skill focus for craftsmen, alertness for guards, persuasive for prostitutes, etc.). Plus almost all the sourcebooks offer up some kind of generic set of stats for NPCs. That way, I can always have an NPC on the fly without abusing sensitive players who feel like they are just being strung along for the GM's whim.

I can however sympathize with those players who have been abused by that meta-style of GMing. I played in a D&D campaign where every orc had enough hit points to last a campaign just because the GM couldn't balance out a planned encounter and kept "adding" class levels throughout a single combat. I had to buy some magic goggles that allowed me keep track of an opponent's life-force so I knew that each foe really was "going down".

 

[Dpetroc]

I guess I dont buy into the whole D&D - gaging opponants by player character level thing. Life isnt fair, nor should your game be.

Don't get me wrong -- create an opponenet that can kick the players all over the Vilayet. Make them FEAR the opponent -- make them run away screaming like little girls. Fine -- Kudos in fact when your players fear your big baddie -- an advantage of the Conan system is that players don't look at enemies like sacks of XP. I just think THAT opponent should be a crafted enemy that is designed within the same parameters the characters are designed in. Maybe even call it symmetry. I'm by no means a rule nazi (as you can bear witness in my question about the feats for the Temple Harlot), but beyond the nameless drones, we as GMs should take time to flesh out our major NPCs -- if just to be consistent. Inconsistency kills many a game. Like you, I have more than 25 years of gaming experience, and am relatively new to Conan. I was never a fan of the DMs that didn't have a well-prepped, well-crafted game. That said -- this is a question of style, of personal comfort, and preferred game play.

 

[rgrove0172]

Your right of course, it is a matter of taste. I have little trouble dreaming up the various settings, details, characters and situations I present in my games but consider the conversion to game stats a bit laborous. My primary interest in this thread then was to minimize the drudgery.

 

[Brass Jester]

Here's a quick design system that I use to quickly create NPC's
(Long post)
QUICK NPC DESIGN Ó Brass Jester 2007
A design system to quickly generate ‘off the cuff’ NPC’s who can be written up in more detail later should they be needed. It gives enough detail without wasting too much time. Some tables are randomised for those who like such things (e.g: me).

1. Roll stats: 3d6 for each, in order from STR to CHA.

2. Determine level. Select or roll d6 = Level; also on a ‘6’ roll again: 1-3 +1 level then stop, 4-5 +2 Levels then stop, 6 +1 level, and roll again

3. Class. Select or roll d8. Multiclass if desired.
Hit Dice
1. Barbarian d10
2. Borderer d10
3. Noble d8
4. Nomad d10
5. Pirate d8
6. Scholar d6
7. Soldier d10
8. Thief d8

4. Assign Skills. Start with a base of Four Skills. Assign Skills based on NPC’s role, or roll on table.. Assign Ranks as shown [don’t worry about Skill Points]. Add 1 Skill per Two Character Levels

5. Assign Feats based on role, or roll on Generic Feats table

6. Calculate HP, BaB and Saves based on level.

7. Apply any racial modifiers

8. Assign equipment, based on class and role.

9. Name NPC, determine gender, height, weight, hair, skin, eyes etc.
Tables:
Skills:

Barbarian Borderer Noble Nomad
1 Climb Climb Appraise Bluff
2 Handle Animal Craft (Herbalist) Bluff Craft (Mundane)
3 Hide Gather Information Diplomacy Gather Information
4 Intimidate Hide Gather Information Handle Animal
5 Jump Know (geography) Know (history) Heal
6 Listen Move Silently Know (nobility) Hide
7 Ride Search Perform Know (local)
8 Spot Spot Ride Move Silently
9 Survival Survival Sense Motive Ride
0 Swim Use Rope Spot Survival







Pirate Scholar Soldier Thief
1 Balance Appraise Climb Appraise
2 Climb Bluff Craft (mundane) Climb
3 Disguise Concentration Intimidate Disable Device
4 Escape Artist Decipher Script Jump Disguise
5 Gather Information Heal Know (local) Escape Artist
6 Intimidate Knowledge* Profession Move Silently
7 Perform Perform Ride Open Lock
8 Search Profession Search Search
9 Swim Search Perform Sleight of Hand
0 Use Rope Sense Motive Know (geography)` Tumble
* Scholars always get 1d6+1 Knowledge skills in addition to this.

Rank Roll d6 for each Skill
1-4 Good Rank = Level
5-6 Expert Rank = Level + 3

Feats:

1 Alertness 11 Weapon Focus
2 Dodge 12 Skill Focus
3 Endurance 13 Track
4 Great Fortitude 14 Knowledgeable
5 Investigator 15 Self-sufficient
6 Iron Will 16 Alertness
7 Lightning Reflexes 17 Dodge
8 Performer 18 Endurance
9 Run 19 Great Fortitude
10 Toughness 20 Toughness

Equipment

Barbarian Broadsword, dagger, leather jerkin
Borderer Short sword, hunting bow & 20 arrows, quilted jerkin
Noble Arming sword, dagger, cloak, fine clothes
Nomad Cloak, scimitar, knife, riding horse or camel
Pirate Cutlass, dagger, flashy clothes
Scholar Dagger, robe, cloak, belt pouch
Soldier Broadsword, quilted jerkin, steel cap, buckler
Thief Short sword, dagger, sling & 10 bullets











Also roll 1-3 times below -
1 Purse, 2d10 sp 11 1 vial Flame-powder
2 Bottle of fine wine 12 Purse, 3d8 sp
3 Backpack, bedroll 13 1 vial Stygian tomb-dust
4 Riding horse 14 Mail shirt
5 Servant 15 Contact – an important personage
6 Friend (generate another NPC) 16 Akbitanan dagger
7 Slave 17 Akbitanan short sword
8 50’ silk rope 18 Purse, 4d6 sp
9 War dog 19 Purse, 2d10 gp
10 Backpack, outdoor gear 20 Scroll or map

Height and Weight

Gender Base height Modifier Base weight Modifier
Male 5’ 0” + 2d10” 120 lb x 2d4 lb
Female 4’ 7” + 2d10” 85 lb x 2d4 lb

Weight = Base weight x Height modifier x weight modifier

Personality (D66)
Roll twice for Primary/Secondary Personality, gives some ideas for roleplaying:-

11 Amorous 31 Cautious 51 Obsessed
12 Devout 32 Patriot 52 Caring
13 Bad temper33 Nervous 53 Brave
14 Amoral 34 Proud 54 Sadistic
15 Avaricious 35 Arrogant 55 Generous
16 Obedient 36 Inscrutable56 Courageous
21 Loyal 41 Surly 61 Disloyal
22 Carouser 42 Driven 62 Cunning
23 Merciless 43 Paranoid 63 Gregarious
24 Vengeful 44 Love 64 Solitary
25 Reckless 45 Self-serving65 Fear of sorcery
26 Cowardly 46 Ambitious 66 Honest

 

[Brass Jester]

Oops, the tables haven't translated very well
They should be in columns for each class. If anyone wants a better version then e-mail me and I'll send it to you.

 

[Damien]

When it comes to NPCs not likely to actually engage the PCs in any meaningful way (meaning, any way that does not require dice rolling), I don't feel the need to stat them up at all. Blacksmiths and bar wenches just don't need stats, generally.

What I do, especially with recurring but ultimately uninvolved NPCs, is to make very generic notes. Something like this:

Gorvar the Barkeep
Hardy (above average HP)
Very charismatic
Kinda stupid
Walks with a limp


There, that's all I need in terms of his 'numeric' stats. I can abjudicate any situation that might come up using that little block of text. If for some wild reason I need to deal with him making Sense Motive checks, for instance, I'll know he has an above average Charisma for a regular person (presuming regular people have stats in the 8-10 range) and will adjust accordingly. His limp tells me any skill or ability rolls he makes which this would affect will suffer. His low intelligence would help me abjudicate any rolls where his Intelligence score would come up. And his higher than average HP would tell me what happens if the PCs attack him.

Simple as that. His profession also tells me generally what skills he has in case that comes up. As a barkeep, he likely doesn't have high ranks in Climb or Move Silently, but he's probably got decent Listen, Spot, and Profession ranks, as well as possibly Sense Motive or even Bluff - depending on exactly how I've decided to 'play' his persona.

That kind of brief write-up is really all you need for someone you don't expect to engage your PCs in any meaningful way. You can add more number-details if you expect him to interact a bit more, but still not be any kind of key player.


Of course, that changes for enemy NPCs and big name characters, who I think deserve fuller (if not complete) write-ups.

 

[Aholibamah]

One handy thing about Conan too is that for instance you can use the template character charts to quickly assess an idea of hit points or skills if need be. However I usually only flesh them out to that point if it will be significant to the pcs. For instance in my current game a village girl who was a victim of a death worshipping cult was rescued by a pc and then became a companion when the pc decided she liked her, so I've developed her more just to have some way of keeping track of the NPC.

 

[kintire]

I guess I dont buy into the whole D&D - gaging opponants by player character level thing. Life isnt fair, nor should your game be.

My primary interest in this thread then was to minimize the drudgery.

I have observed before that your instincts are sound. Trust your instincts!

I have played a large number of different systems, and my observation has been that they make little difference when it comes to good GMing. If a policy works in ADnD it'll work in GURPS, World of Darkness, Runequest, Fudge etc etc. It won't work in Rolemaster, of course, but thats because nothing does. If you've been gaming for 25 years, you won't find d20 Conan any problem.

As far as NPCs go, for normal people in the street you need nothing. Some may need a skill. Thugs, soldiers and other combat speedbumps need Attack Bonus with the weapon they are using, Defence Value, DR, Damage with the weapon they are using, and Hits. They may also need saves if you have a scholar. Significant adversaries may also need feats, and some skills if, and only if, they are likely to use them. Bads that are especially important to a scenario may approach a full stat block.

Occasionally, you may actually find a bad guy is so longlasting that he actually needs a full sheet, with stats and everything. This will be pretty rare though.

I can however sympathize with those players who have been abused by that meta-style of GMing. I played in a D&D campaign where every orc had enough hit points to last a campaign just because the GM couldn't balance out a planned encounter and kept "adding" class levels throughout a single combat.

To be fair, this isn't a problem with this style of GMing, its a problem with your GM. This kind of pilchard will foul up any system he uses. Sack him.