VaS FAQ Questions

[Soulmage]

My wife and I played our first 5 point Battle engagement of VaS this afternoon and had a blast! We cheated a little at the beginning as there were a few rules we overlooked at first.

It was 1942, and the United States had decided that after 170 years it was time for Britain to become a vassal state of its former colony! The English fleet was thoroughly pwned. . . I will see if I can get a sticky post w/ my address so you guys across the pond can start sending me tribute.

We discovered that even in a no-carriers game, A LOT of aircraft go up simply from the spotting planes. We also discovered that U.S. spotting plane pilots are apparently incapable of dodging or don't understand the concept. The Americans were also quite alarmed by the fact that Brittish cruisers carried torpedoes and some had weapons w/o the "weak" quality.

Fortunately, the American navy was pleased to discover that the 16" guns of an Iowa class battleship will handily render into scrap anything the Royal Navy can float. . . including the vaunted King George V battleships!

Also, opposing destroyer screens tend to generate mutually assured destruction. I only managed to sneak a couple of my destroyers past her screen to attempt to torpedo cruisers.

Did come up with a few questions as we played:

1. How do you check to see if things are in range for spotting purposes w/o pre-measuring?

2. When spotting, do you roll for each ship in range, or is it one roll per side? (We think we figured out that each ship gets to roll when it is activated and completes is move. . . same for radar. Is anyone else playing differently?)

3. Can you target a ship w/ torpedoes if there is an intervening ship?

4. Are torpedoes affected by modifiers from special actions such as Evasive Action or Flank Speed? The rules imply that only the beam-on modifier applies to torps, but only a few modifiers are specifically listed as being ignored.

5. Anybody have any creative ideas on how to track what ships have taken special actions and what not in a large fleet game, other than writing it on every card it applies to.

Anyway, a lot of fun was had, and a lot of ships were sent to the bottom of the Atlantic! When my miniatures are all purchased, painted and based within the next couple weeks here, I will see if I can do an actual official-type battle report, complete with pictures!

 

[Wulf Corbett]

1. How do you check to see if things are in range for spotting purposes w/o pre-measuring?

Guess? Personally I'd allow checking simply for spotting, never for fire, although of course the one implies the other...

2. When spotting, do you roll for each ship in range, or is it one roll per side?

Each separately.

3. Can you target a ship w/ torpedoes if there is an intervening ship?

No, but note that ships rarely if ever will truly block LoS, just as with any other weapon. The mini to 'ground' scale is a bit misleading. You COULD disallow fire if any ship is within 1" of the direct line, but that's not in the rules.

4. Are torpedoes affected by modifiers from special actions such as Evasive Action or Flank Speed?

All modifiers EXCEPT those listed on Page 7 should apply, I think, without checking every rule.

5. Anybody have any creative ideas on how to track what ships have taken special actions and what not in a large fleet game, other than writing it on every card it applies to.

There are some plastic SA markers manufactured by Gale Force 9 for ACtA that could (and have...) been pressed into service.

Wulf

 

[E Nicely]

1. How do you check to see if things are in range for spotting purposes w/o pre-measuring?

2. When spotting, do you roll for each ship in range, or is it one roll per side? (We think we figured out that each ship gets to roll when it is activated and completes is move. . . same for radar. Is anyone else playing differently?)

3. Can you target a ship w/ torpedoes if there is an intervening ship?

4. Are torpedoes affected by modifiers from special actions such as Evasive Action or Flank Speed? The rules imply that only the beam-on modifier applies to torps, but only a few modifiers are specifically listed as being ignored.

5. Anybody have any creative ideas on how to track what ships have taken special actions and what not in a large fleet game, other than writing it on every card it applies to.

1. Not sure what you mean by spotting purposes, but in games where you can't pre measure range you have to guess and after a while you'll get pretty good at it.

2. Again, don't know what you mean by spotting. Detecting in bad weather? Firing rolling the AD to weapons that are in range? Once per ship or squadron that you activate then to your opponents ship/ or squad., back to yours until all ships have fired. Alternating first on movement then firing. Radar detects any ship on the table on a 3 or more, it has no range.

3. We discussed this in playtest and I'm pretty sure we decided that intervening ships don't block torps since they resolve in the end phase and there's a lot of movement between firing and impact.

4. Torpedoes ignore regular firing modifiers and are subject only to those modifiers stated in the torpedoes rules.

5. Buy the Gale Force Nine ACTA SA counters and adapt them (with something as simple as a marker) or make some counters.

 

[E Nicely]

Wulf look at page 17 of the PDF for the torp attack modifiers rule. They ignore the detailed attack roll mods. And I might be wrong but I think we came to the conclusion that torps pretty much ignore intervening targets.

 

[Soulmage]

2. Again, don't know what you mean by spotting. Detecting in bad weather? Firing rolling the AD to weapons that are in range? Once per ship or squadron that you activate then to your opponents ship/ or squad., back to yours until all ships have fired. Alternating first on movement then firing. Radar detects any ship on the table on a 3 or more, it has no range.

I'm referring to the "spotting" rules for bad weather and night fight found on page 16 at the top and towards the bottom. Your reply didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Maybe you could explain it to me step by step with an example game turn?

1. Not sure what you mean by spotting purposes, but in games where you can't pre measure range you have to guess and after a while you'll get pretty good at it.

I mean the spotting rules say that a ship can get spotted when it is within 20". How do you determine which ships are in 20" without measuring? Once you measure, of course, that takes a lot of the guesswork out of subesquent shooting that turn - especially for critical distances like torpedoes.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Wulf look at page 17 of the PDF for the torp attack modifiers rule. They ignore the detailed attack roll mods.

I'm looking. It says

These Attack Dice do not use the normal modifiers detailed on page 7.

It doesn't say anything about modifiers NOT on Page 7. I'd say Bad Weather, Flank Speed, etc were perfectly reasonable modifiers for Torps (and Evasive specifically says it affects them).

And I might be wrong but I think we came to the conclusion that torps pretty much ignore intervening targets.

Agreed, it's way too difficult to decide what is and isn't intervening at the point a torp actually passes through a given patch of ocean. But you COULD apply a limitation - in reality, it WOULD be a factor.

Wulf

 

[E Nicely]

2. Again, don't know what you mean by spotting. Detecting in bad weather? Firing rolling the AD to weapons that are in range? Once per ship or squadron that you activate then to your opponents ship/ or squad., back to yours until all ships have fired. Alternating first on movement then firing. Radar detects any ship on the table on a 3 or more, it has no range.

I'm referring to the "spotting" rules for bad weather and night fight found on page 16 at the top and towards the bottom. Your reply didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Maybe you could explain it to me step by step with an example game turn?

1. Not sure what you mean by spotting purposes, but in games where you can't pre measure range you have to guess and after a while you'll get pretty good at it.

I mean the spotting rules say that a ship can get spotted when it is within 20". How do you determine which ships are in 20" without measuring? Once you measure, of course, that takes a lot of the guesswork out of subesquent shooting that turn - especially for critical distances like torpedoes.

Your copy of the rules is a complete rulebbok, mine's a "final" PDF. What I've got doesn't mention a 20" limit for detecting an enemy ship in bad weather, it does mention a 20" limit in night battles witha Command Check needed to spot at night only . I bad weather there's a -1 penalty to attack rolls and command checks. At least as far as my rules go. Radar detects targets on a 3+ on 1 die, no range limit.

If both of our rules say the same thing I would attempt to spot during the attack phase. Check per ship or squadron alternating just like you do when moving or firing sounds good to me.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

Your copy of the rules is a complete rulebbok, mine's a "final" PDF. What I've got doesn't mention a 20" limit for detecting an enemy ship in bad weather

It does you know... final sentence Page 14...

In addition, Bad Weather affects visibility, giving rise to the possibility that a ship will not spot an enemy until it is too late. Ships at extreme range may not be attacked at all in Bad Weather. Those at long range must be Spotted before they can be attacked.

Wulf

 

[E Nicely]

Ok extreme range.

 

[pixelgeek]

5. Anybody have any creative ideas on how to track what ships have taken special actions and what not in a large fleet game, other than writing it on every card it applies to.

I did some for ACTA and I will be doing some nautical themed counters for VaS as soon as I get the rules

 

[DM]

1. How do you check to see if things are in range for spotting purposes w/o pre-measuring?

The "no premeasuring" rule is one that I personally have ditched from my VAS games. Ships of the period were actually provided with very good ranging equipment (even moreso when gunnery radar was introduced) so I don't see the rationale for including it.

 

[Soulmage]

Here's another one:

The rules state that ships can never occupy the same space, nor can they move through each other I believe.

What happens when this is unavoidable? For instance, you are 1" away from an enemy ship you are pointing at. You are required to move forward at least 1". What do you do?

Sure, by altering activation order, sometimes this can be avoided, but there will be situations where the ship blocking your path has already moved, and you have not.

 

[Agis]

Here's another one:

The rules state that ships can never occupy the same space, nor can they move through each other I believe.

What happens when this is unavoidable? For instance, you are 1" away from an enemy ship you are pointing at. You are required to move forward at least 1". What do you do?

Sure, by altering activation order, sometimes this can be avoided, but there will be situations where the ship blocking your path has already moved, and you have not.

There was aslo a discussion about this during playtesting. Since there is no real scale in VaS it is not taht important, just use common sense. Maybe roll a die who places his ship. But in our games it never had any effect since no ship is blocking LOS to another one.

 

[Fitzwalrus]

Hello all... rank newbie here!

Just picked up VAS this weekend, and like what I see so far a lot. Our crowd of crusty old naval gamers is going to give "Guadalcanal Finale" a try this Friday, but I have a couple of questions about Radar.

From reading these FAQ's I understand that when Radar "turns on" it reveals every ship on the table: it's the "Detection" bit I'm unclear on. Does the 3+ die roll Detect all the ships on the table at once with one single roll (thus making them all potential targets to the detecting ship) or do you have to roll 3+ for each individual ship before you can fire on it?

This kinda makes a big difference with those faulty fuses on the South Dakota.... :wink:

 

[DM]

Since there is no real scale in VaS it is not taht important

There is no declared scale in VAS, but gunnery distances were calculated on a scale of 1" = 1000 yards and the timescale falls out from that

 

[Soulmage]

do you have to roll 3+ for each individual ship before you can fire on it?

This is the approach we have taken. Just making this roll in the fire phase when choosing targets.

 

[Fitzwalrus]

do you have to roll 3+ for each individual ship before you can fire on it?

This is the approach we have taken. Just making this roll in the fire phase when choosing targets.

Works for me, and is actually the way I thought was intended. That "detects every ship" line had me worried, though.

Thanks much!

 

[VonTed]

Question on Kriegsmarine.... thier radar is only in the front arc. So on a 3+ they detect as normal and recieve the benefits. What happens if the detected target moves out of the ships fornt arc?

a) We assumed the radar benefit is lost. Yes?
b) If yes, and the benfit is lost, does the ship maintain the radar detection if the target enters the front arc, or will it have to re-roll for detection?

 

[Soulmage]

Not an issue the way we play. You have to re-roll to obtain radar lock each shooting phase. Its not a once and done roll.

 

[VonTed]

Not an issue the way we play. You have to re-roll to obtain radar lock each shooting phase. Its not a once and done roll.

Granted I don't have the book in front of me.... but I thought radar was exactly that. Roll once and the lock remains throughout play. (but the German navy special rule changes it?)