Traveller Without Credits

[F33D]

post-scarcity economies with FTL communication, not so.

Based on human nature, a total pipe dream.

In the future, maybe not so.

Based on human nature (which has been unchanged since the dawn of our species). Yes. This is the critical factor that these writers ALWAYS miss.

 

[dragoner]

One thing you have to decide on is whether there is FTL communication.

If not, then money is likely a necessity. If there is FTL communication, then it becomes eventually less important, to the point, that with enough technological capacity, it ceases to matter.

OTU will always require money, post-scarcity economies with FTL communication, not so.

Banks' Culture said: "Money is a sign of poverty." I use that in that other cultures may or may not be more or less developed. Post scarcity societies will still have money, at least for external trade, but for the average citizen it will have less value as their motivation is self-actualization such as from maslow's hierarchy of needs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs), when or how this starts, IMTU it begins at TL12; when automata, cheap fusion and 3D printing become the end of traditional labor. Though IMTU the Imperium is a trade federation and a defense pact where the Emperor and Imperial trappings just a dog and pony show to provide spectacle for the people.

 

[F33D]

One thing you have to decide on is whether there is FTL communication.

If not, then money is likely a necessity. If there is FTL communication, then it becomes eventually less important, to the point, that with enough technological capacity, it ceases to matter.

OTU will always require money, post-scarcity economies with FTL communication, not so.

Banks' Culture said: "Money is a sign of poverty." I use that in that other cultures may or may not be more or less developed. Post scarcity societies will still have money, at least for external trade, but for the average citizen it will have less value as their motivation is self-actualization such as from maslow's hierarchy of needs

Unless you use something other than human's, not happening.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

My current MTU has THREE different currencies.

I have a currency conversion table that varies slightly between worlds.

It is based on modern world conversions and varies weekly (in game time).

So far it works fine.

For standard items, there is a conversion to the OTU Credit to figure out what something actually costs.

I also have an entry for each world that lists Common Imports and Common Exports. Common Exports are cheaper and Common Imports are a bit more expensive.

I REALLY use the Trade Codes to adjust this table.

I have a pretty small setting - about 1 sector in size and I really only generate the table for a given world as needed.

It has worked for years.

 

[dragoner]

Mine I have various currencies, some, such as with the major high tech polities are just 1:1 being post scarcity and trade is spurious, but technology:

(3) High: entirely or almost entirely automated and intelligent technology that manipulates ever finer matter and ever powerful forces.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/technology.html

and process:

Sequence of interdependent and linked procedures which, at every stage, consume one or more resources (employee time, energy, machines, money) to convert inputs (data, material, parts, etc.) into outputs. These outputs then serve as inputs for the next stage until a known goal or end result is reached.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/process.html

Form a fundamental basis for interaction between the polities and just not for commerce, there are other currencies, with various valuations; no floating peg against a reserve currency however.

 

[Lemnoc]

You just described one of the reasons currency was invented for, to make those variable valuation judgements a little more uniform....

True. Money is the intermediary symbol of barter, where a doctor and a dairyman can still exchange goods and services even though the doctor is not in need of enough gallons of milk to perform the surgery. I think across human history there has been more of standardization of currency than less, and you'd think in a high-tech realm that trend would continue.

I've given a lot of thought to currency in Trav. The analog, given the absence of FTL communication and the travel delays, is the Age of Sail. So I think in one sense Travellers would, yes, carry their currency as they travel, and that currency would be somewhat universal (what good does it do a planet, after all, to refuse the currency of visitors when that currency has demonstrable value?). But it might be possible for Travellers to draw on lines of credit, so they don't have to waddle around with their pants drooping with gold. Probably you'd have money changers and money lenders in every port of call, eager to take their cut (another way of stripping cash from PCs :twisted: ).

I've considered the idea of a Vault on each starship that carries electronic banking data, strongly—hideously—encoded and shielded, that ships carry with them from place to place. When they arrive in a system, that system receives up to the instant updates of banking statuses, updating each branch of the bank. One of the last actions before a ship Jumps is to receive the most current banking data, and if you do not do that you wind up in the next system cash strapped. Otherwise you can draw on a line of credit based on your ship's Vault data.

So the credit in essence is the line of credit you can draw out of your own ship's Vault.

EDIT: Consider, also, the most valuable and important thing the Xboats are carrying is comprehensive sector-wide financial data in electronic form.

 

[CosmicGamer]

The analog, given the absence of FTL communication and the travel delays, is the Age of Sail.

It's not just instant communication that needs to be considered.

Traveler's cheques were first issued on 1 January 1772.

In 1958 American Express created a worldwide credit card network. I recall credit cards being common without any "instant verification". I also recall a list of "problem" credit cards that the merchant might check. Then fraud made calling in a credit card a common occurrence until the methods of checking the card became automated.

Methods of verifying a persons identity are important to consider. Many places have and still take checks with just a photo ID. Higher tech biometric authentication could play a part.

The Age of Sail also didn't have the database capabilities of today, let alone the future. I see no reason that "Imperial citizens" couldn't have their "Imperial Passport data" or even birth records and whatever sent to all the worlds in the subsector or sector or beyond long prior to any traveling. I'm sure the "secret police" will have the information in any system they are present, with it all probably fitting on a handheld device for quick look up by field agents. Mega banks would have peoples credit rating information passed around to all their locations for those times when people travel - or try to fraud the bank with false identities.

Here is a section from the document I created for MTU. I believe it's just filling in the blanks not detailed and doesn't break any canon. YTU or your detailed OTU, of course, may vary.

Economy
The Imperium protects and encourages trade between systems. This includes supporting a financial system for conducting trade easily and quickly.

There are multiple ways of conducting monetary transactions within the Imperial financial system as well as the numerous ways that worlds conduct business and ways things are handled outside of the Imperium.

Imperial Star Ports of a certain class or higher and all Scout and Navy bases have a branch of the Imperial Bank that will perform most transactions. Many space ports on Imperial worlds will have a branch of the Imperial Bank.

Local financial systems can take just about any form but most Imperial worlds will support the Imperial financial system to some degree. Sometimes it is just a bank in the capital that will exchange CRImps and local currency. Sometimes banks and businesses support all the common forms of Imperial cash and credit.

The smart card or credit stick
There are some devices that require obtaining autherization for each transaction (like a modern credit card or on line banking). There are other devices that are just a means of identifying the apropriet acount from which funds will be provided (like old credit cards and checks). There are also smart devices loaded with a set amount and all transactions and the current balance are maintained on the device. This last group of smart devices are detailed here.

Devices can have numerous varieties.
A device could be loaded with actual funds (bought like a visa prepaid card).
A device could be loaded with a set amount of authorized credit.

Security
For security, some devices are only capable of a limited number of transaction. For security, devices usually have an experation. For security, some devices not only electronicly track transactions, but are physicaly marked or punched to indicate transactions. For security, some smart cards and credit sticks only have the ability to subtract funds and no amount of software hacking can add funds since the hardware is incapable of doing so.

While some devices are extremely reliable, nothing is tamper proof. Obviously, doing so is a crime.

Some versions of these devices are only provided by Imperial banks. Other devices can be loaded/created by certain high level authorized representatives, like TAS or trusted local financial institutions. There are some devices which can be acquired from a local merchant or even a ships Steward for paying crew.

Some cards are bearer versions - anyone possessing the card can use it. Most cards have some form of security from a simple pin to biometric authentication.

Usage
Even on a low tech world, some businesses may have a machine of the appropriate TL for conducting business using these cards. However it's more common for a traveler to use the most secure version of a smart card or credit stick and stop at the Imperial bank at the star port to obtain a version of the local financial medium.

Some cards are for Imperial bank use only but held by the account holder or a representative or even sent via courier. Businesses can't take them, they can only be used at another Imperial bank. This is usually for the transfer of large values when the normal means for financial institutions to convey information is not conducive to expedient transactions.

Once funds or credit is on a device, it's like cash in your hands. Some people do forgo using these devices and opt to use Imperial credits. If you lose the device recovery options can vary, based on the type of device, from as simple as requesting a new one, to long delays as the different bank branches all synchronize transaction logs and account information, to "sorry, not my problem".

Merchants, crew, and other seasoned travelers usually don't put all their eggs in one basket. They tend to have multiple credit devices loaded with varying amounts.

It's a good idea for a merchant to know where they are going and to plan for their financial needs before they depart.

Pretty much all the ways we are doing things now are still possible in the future.

Note that though I use the term "card" or "stick" it can take any form.

 

[CosmicGamer]

Consider, also, the most valuable and important thing the Xboats are carrying is comprehensive sector-wide financial data in electronic form.

My opinion is that it takes a ship to travel and it takes a ship to transport the data. The data does not need to stop to refuel, do maintenance, take on supplies, onload and offload cargo and so on. It can be transmitted or transfered to the very next outbound ship. In many cases, especially on Xboat and trade routes, data will travel faster than a Traveller.

IMTU, it's also not unheard of for a financial institution or other entities to make a "questionable" customer wait for the next data update.

 

[dragoner]

So the credit in essence is the line of credit you can draw out of your own ship's Vault.

So like a bit coin or e-cash.

I generally do cash or paper with the caveat that banks and other issuers are likely to hire mercs ("the golden age of the mercenary has arrived" :wink: ) to collect debts and errant debtors, dead or alive; it makes good play for players on either side of the law.

 

[F33D]

I've given a lot of thought to currency in Trav. The analog, given the absence of FTL communication and the travel delays, is the Age of Sail. So I think in one sense Travellers would, yes, carry their currency as they travel, and that currency would be somewhat universal (what good does it do a planet, after all, to refuse the currency of visitors when that currency has demonstrable value?).

I always think back on the scene where Solo is loading up his ship with his reward money at the end of the 1st movie. And, they had FTL comm.

EDIT: Consider, also, the most valuable and important thing the Xboats are carrying is comprehensive sector-wide financial data in electronic form.

Agreed. Vital to interstellar commerce in the 3I.

 

[Lemnoc]

My opinion is that it takes a ship to travel and it takes a ship to transport the data. The data does not need to stop to refuel, do maintenance, take on supplies, onload and offload cargo and so on. It can be transmitted or transfered to the very next outbound ship. In many cases, especially on Xboat and trade routes, data will travel faster than a Traveller.

Agreed. Look at these folks trying to game Wall Street by a few milliseconds' advantage in advance information and project that into the future. The Xboats would be carrying vital but probably a lot less volatile information... that's what the J6 ships are for. :twisted:

IMTU, it's also not unheard of for a financial institution or other entities to make a "questionable" customer wait for the next data update.

Yes; when you think about it "Travellers," the sorts of people represented in the game, would be the very least sort of folk you ever want to extend an unsecured loan.