Traveller Anti-Hammerspace Item Tracker

[FraNe91]

Hi all :mrgreen:

I was looking at this great post about a location-based item tracker to replace the classic weight-based ones and was wondering how to implement it in a rules-consistent way in Traveller, especially regarding the over-encumbrance rules.

I think the main problem between Traveller and the systems the AHIT was thought for is that the latter are usually pulp fantasy, meaning the characters will wear armour most of the time, while in Traveller except for the light ones armour is not usually worn.

For example while a fantasy character will wear heavy armour most of the time, I doubt that a Traveller character will wear his combat armour so often. This brings the necessity to adapt the AHIT system to our needs and to the over-encumbrance rules.

My idea is to make the armour-dependant containers semi weight-based:
- Wearing armour up to 2 kg takes 1 container.
- Every other 6 kg of armour take 1 more container.

This would be up to 8kg: 2 containers; up to 14kg: 3 containers etc.
An LT11 combat armour, since it's really heavy (18kg) and and still quite bulky, would take 4 containers.
Note that an average character can carry up to 14kg before being lightly encumbered

Adding options like a grav belt would allow the armour to take less containers (the balance between the remaining bulkiness and the reduced weight is left to the referee).

My doubts are how to include in this system the light and heavy encumbered modifiers and the rolls that allows a character to carry more load.

Maybe when you're using more than 3 containers you're light encumbered? And when you're heavy encumbered?

What do you think?

 

[Reynard]

I am totally lost. What is Hammerspace and what is the container all about?

 

[FraNe91]

I am totally lost. What is Hammerspace and what is the container all about?

I point to a link at the beginning of the post. I'll add it here again for clarity:

Matt Rundle's Anti-Hammerspace Item Tracker

 

[GypsyComet]

I am totally lost. What is Hammerspace...?

Ever noticed how cartoon characters never seem to be armed until they actually need to be? Tom and Jerry always seem to have a baseball bat handy. You never see Bugs' carrot case until he pulls it out of a "pocket" and extracts a carrot. Some people always seem to have a bigger gun.

In gaming, it manifests as fighter types never having to sort through the golf bag to find the right sword or gun, or the mage always having the right spell materials handy on an instant's notice.

 

[AndrewW]

In gaming, it manifests as fighter types never having to sort through the golf bag to find the right sword or gun, or the mage always having the right spell materials handy on an instant's notice.

You just need a handy haversack. (formerly: Hewards...)

 

[Epicenter]

It's a great idea, since it's more workable visual (and easier to use) than just item lists. I'd suggest not going overboard on penalizing armor though.

It's important to remember that encumbrance isn't just about weight. It's generally more about how things get in the way, make you clumsy, and so on. Only part of this is weight. Carrying around a broom that weighs very little is still be hugely encumbering because of its dimensions while carrying that same weight in something that clips on your belt (or something) would hardly slow you down at all.

Likewise, things that are quite heavy today are not as actually encumbering as you might think because the idea of "ergonomics" has advanced quite a bit. Things like combat armor are actually more similar to late medieval plate armor - although it's heavy, the weight is better distributed around the body; one can only imagine that in the future, things like combat armor will be less encumbering than their weight would suggest; we're already developing the technology to assist (not really strengthen) limbs with coping with weight there's no reason to believe that combat armor in Traveller would not integrate similar technology to lighten the effective load on the wearer; it might not make you stronger, but the armor would be easier to wear.

In addition, battle dress integrates enhanced strength so it actually increases your ability to carry weight by making you stronger, nevertheless, until you start integrating grav belts or something into your armor, your total effective weight (against the ground) keeps increasing, so your battle dress might be able to lift a car, but you might still crash through the floor of a wooden building.

For example while a fantasy character will wear heavy armour most of the time

Just a little bit where fantasy really is fantasy. Old armor like that was heavy, uncomfortable, and sweaty and so on. People did not walk around in mail or plate all the time; you couldn't, if you did eventually all the padding and so underneath would get moldy after you sweat it in all day long and start to rot (as well as cause you skin problems).

In addition, there's a dissonance in how people react to people in armor and weapons in fantasy and Traveller games: If a bunch of men rode towards a village wearing mail armor and so on like "adventurers" did, the village bell would start to ring, villagers would grab their children and would run to the hold expecting them to be bandits; nobody would just ignore it like they do conveniently in fantasy. This is pretty much the same reaction (except the response is higher-tech) that is typically played out in Traveller if a bunch of players show up wearing battle dress and gauss rifles and PGMPs somewhere.

If you want to think of it that way, it's also totally reasonable that players be allowed to be wearing their heavy armor in Traveller.

 

[simonh]

"I'm sorry Mr. Fett, the dress code of this club specifically..."
*ZAPPOW*

It depends on the assumptions you build into the setting, and actualy where you are in that setting. But yes, geenrally anyone walkign around in armour with a big weapon is clearly signalling they are either expecting or looking for trouble.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Reynard]

Sorry about that. It was standing right there in your post and my attention had gone elsewhere.

Now I get it. Our games, especially D&D don't have hammerspace. You record the weight you carry and where all items are located on a sheet. The rules state you must use actions to dig out a particular bit of gear one at a time. The only hammerspace is it's a game and games are simplistic rather than nano-management. It's assumed for fun sake you have items in easy position to retrieve.

Back to Traveller which seems to be more grounded in reality when it comes to equipment. Characters leave the ship or hotel in a jumpsuit, gun on their hip and keys to the air raft in a pocket. You seldom heard adventurers wearing backpacks for their extensive inventory. Most is on your belt. If it's that much it probably gets put in a shoulder bag. All that usually doesn't call for a lot of switch out during combat. Isn't technology wonderful?

 

[Infojunky]

Since we are talking about Encumberance, I have say my favorite Encumberance system is Car Wars Grenade Equivalent system, where each character could carry 6 Ge. Backpacks and the like can alter the total carried but with a cost in accessibility.

 

[ScottyG]

Had a player with an Aslan male character, who insisted on sporting a massive array of hand weaponry, having 2 weapons belts with a selection of handguns for every occasion. I dealt with this by insisting he make int checks to choose which firearm he pulled. Failures costing him an action through indecision. Too many choices...
This encouraged him to reconsider the "you can never have too many guns" approach.
It was also quite funny at the time.

 

[ScottyG]

Had a player with an Aslan male character, who insisted on sporting a massive array of hand weaponry, having 2 weapons belts with a selection of handguns for every occasion. I dealt with this by insisting he make int checks to choose which firearm he pulled. Failures costing him an action through indecision. Too many choices...
This encouraged him to reconsider the "you can never have too many guns" approach.
It was also quite funny at the time.

 

[vladthemad]

HAH! I thought this was about Hammer's Slammers at first! Hammerspace...there was even a game mechanic for that in the old Toon game I think.

This all depends on your playstyle really. I like the visual and idea behind what you posted, but for most it's probably not needed.

If you play fast and loose, aka high fantasy (high scifi?!) the GM and players probably aren't going to fret much about who carries what and where, let alone when. Spell components? What are those? How many arrows do I have? Enough! Encumbrance? We don't use that rule!

On the other hand if you play hardcore, aka low fantasy, your GM and players will already be very aware what is where, how beat up it got in the last battle before you fled to avoid a TPK, how much equipment was lost when your dropped your pack because it was weighing you down, and how much gold spilled out when your pouch tore on that branch as you ran all the way back to town.

If your players are trying to play fast and loose and you prefer hardcore, just ask one "Where are you carrying your *insert item here*?" They will try to stall with the classic "uhhh..." while they try to figure out why you'd want to know because they think you are up to devious GM trickery, instead of coming up with a quick answer. When they give you the "uhhh..." respond with "You don't know? Alright you must have forgotten it back on the ship." Let them all scurry to write down where everything is for a few minutes and you shouldn't have much problem with that nonsense anymore Randomly ask that every once in awhile to keep them on their toes.