Tournament scoring of aux craft...

[prelude_to_war]

With Chicago IV just around the corner, the scoring of fighters came up recently in a pick-up game. Mongoose has made the controversial statement that flights are worth a point each (option 1), we've been using 1 VP per destroyed wing purchased separately, while SFoS states VPs per wing are dependant on PL of the wing (important now with the addition of higher PL fighters).

Voice opinions and discuss...

 

[Court Jester]

I voted one per flight regardless. It was a gut reaction choice. It just feels right some how.

I suppose it forces players to treat the bonus fighter they get with their ships with some of respect. No random sacraficial charges or what not... 8)

 

[fluffy05]

The fighters that come with ships are already bought and paid for.

If 1 VP gets awarded for each flight destroyed nobody will take the Carriers - what would be the point - Take an EA Possiden give the opposition points for destroyiong a war level ship and have another 16 points for killing fighters throughout the game

Narn stand to do the best out of this ruling though with their E-mines

 

[Reaverman]

Yeah 1 VP per wing, and only those that are bought seperately

 

[H]

Narn fodder as it stands, anyone coming up against a carrier as an e-mine armed Narn has a distinct advantatge immediatly. Yet another Wonder ruling!!

 

[Triggy]

I'd vote for option 3 - standard SFoS rules!

Not only do they make more sense (as mentioned above, you've already paid for fighters on carriers and get their VPs by killing the carrier itself), it also allows "free" fighters to be used without risk of giving away huge numbers of VPs (look at the Milani for example of a carrier with fighters you'd never use if they gave away VPs) but it also encourages the use of paid for wings of fighters (if you lost 1VP for every Delta-V destroyed, who would ever take them?).

Of course the downside is more bookkeeping but only so far as marking your paid for flights, every other flight doesn't need marking as they don't give away VPs!

 

[Hash]

I never understood why there was an exception for the way VPs were awarded for auxiliary craft in tournaments.

No VPs should be awarded for carried craft (as has been repeatedly pointed out - you've already paid for 'em as part of the ship choice!)

If you spent a patrol choice on fighters, it seems only logical that destroying a patrol choice worth of fighters should yield exactly the same VPs as destroying a patrol level ship...

 

[LordClinto]

I voted option 3.

I think that if you are going to get points for launched craft then why wouldn't you get points for unlaunched craft? Which is totally over the top.

Carried flights should already be considered in the cost of the ship's PL because who would take a Posiedon as a War level ship if you discounted the fighters for victory points purposes?

 

[Celisasu]

Of course one concern on the carrier thing is dumping all those White Star fighters and firing for a turn or two with the carrier, and then having it jump out. Perhaps a system where destroying the majority of fighters but not the carrier they're on counts for another 1/4 VP meaning that a carrier that withdraws gives half it's VP if it left it's fighters behind?

 

[prelude_to_war]

Didn't think options 2 and 3 would be so close. I'm heavily leaning towards 3 (SFoS ruling afterall)...any more votes/comments?

 

[Burger]

Sorry but I think 5 VP's for destroying one WS Fighter in a Raid game is absolutely absurd. A WS Fighter is worth as much as a Sagittarius or a Vorchar or a Torotha or a Strikehawk? Option 3 is ridiculous and those who voted for it obviously haven't considered that.

Although, anyone who buys separate wings of WS fighters really needs to get their head read.

 

[H]

but then according to the priority system a WS fighter IS worth as much as those ships you mentioned. But you are right, anyone bothering to buy WS fighters individually, is a nut!

 

[Hash]

I'm going to use 1 White star and 8 WS Fighters in my next tourney Not... :wink:

 

[Triggy]

Sorry but I think 5 VP's for destroying one WS Fighter in a Raid game is absolutely absurd. A WS Fighter is worth as much as a Sagittarius or a Vorchar or a Torotha or a Strikehawk? Option 3 is ridiculous and those who voted for it obviously haven't considered that.

Although, anyone who buys separate wings of WS fighters really needs to get their head read.

That's only because the WS Fighter (and most others for that matter) are over costed, not because the principle is stupid.

If you got enough fighters per wing to make taking them worth it then Option 3 can really be the only way to go - why should a Kotha be worth as much as a White Star Fighter in Victory Points? Of course, this would mean you'd have 1 WS Fighter/8-10 Kotha/4 Starfury/2 Nial/etc. per Patrol FAP...

 

[Chernobyl]

My suggestion:

1) if the fleet has only fighters that came from ships, don't score any vp for destroying the fighters.

2) if the fleet has only fighters that came from independant flights, score VP for destroying a whole wing's worth of fighters, regardless if they came from the same wing or not (avoids book-keeping) Example: if you have 6 starfuries (two wings) and destroy 4 of them, score VP for 1 patrol choice. This should not boil over to craft of a different type, even if they come in the same numbers. Example: you have 6 starfuries and 3 thunderbolts (3 patrol choices). You destroy 4 starfuries and 2 thunderbolts, you get credit for 1 patrol choice killed.

3) if the fleet has a mix of craft (some from ships and some from independant flights) then treat as 2) until the same number and types of flights have been destroyed as were purchased as independant flights.
example: if you have 10 starfuries (two wings and those from an Omega destroyer) you get VP for a patrol choice for destroying 3 starfuries, no matter which ones they are, up to a maximum of 6. More than that and they're assumed to be from the Omega.

Chernobyl

 

[Target]

Just scrap fighters purchased in wings, give Vree fighters on their ships.
No VP's for fighters then and life become far simpler.

 

[fluffy05]

My suggestion:

1) if the fleet has only fighters that came from ships, don't score any vp for destroying the fighters.

2) if the fleet has only fighters that came from independant flights, score VP for destroying a whole wing's worth of fighters, regardless if they came from the same wing or not (avoids book-keeping) Example: if you have 6 starfuries (two wings) and destroy 4 of them, score VP for 1 patrol choice. This should not boil over to craft of a different type, even if they come in the same numbers. Example: you have 6 starfuries and 3 thunderbolts (3 patrol choices). You destroy 4 starfuries and 2 thunderbolts, you get credit for 1 patrol choice killed.

3) if the fleet has a mix of craft (some from ships and some from independant flights) then treat as 2) until the same number and types of flights have been destroyed as were purchased as independant flights.
example: if you have 10 starfuries (two wings and those from an Omega destroyer) you get VP for a patrol choice for destroying 3 starfuries, no matter which ones they are, up to a maximum of 6. More than that and they're assumed to be from the Omega.

Chernobyl

I like your idea Chernobyl. Sounds fair to me

 

[Triggy]

Chernobyl's idea has merit although I'd prefer seeing the (launched) "free" ones count as dead first to encourage the taking of paid for wings. The principle is very easy to implement though.

 

[fluffy05]

Chernobyl's idea has merit although I'd prefer seeing the (launched) "free" ones count as dead first to encourage the taking of paid for wings. The principle is very easy to implement though.

I think paid for wings should count as destroyed first. That way it eliminates confusion for players using carriers with the Fleet Carrier Rule - Crippled fighters being repaired & relaunched etc. I think it would make book keeping easier.

It also makes it fairer to the opponent and means players aren't count recycled fighter from "Fleet Carrier" as not giving points until they are all destroyed - (origional ship launched & Fleet Carrier Recycled) before counting paid for wings.

Just my opinion though

 

[Triggy]

Chernobyl's idea has merit although I'd prefer seeing the (launched) "free" ones count as dead first to encourage the taking of paid for wings. The principle is very easy to implement though.

I think paid for wings should count as destroyed first. That way it eliminates confusion for players using carriers with the Fleet Carrier Rule - Crippled fighters being repaired & relaunched etc. I think it would make book keeping easier.

It also makes it fairer to the opponent and means players aren't count recycled fighter from "Fleet Carrier" as not giving points until they are all destroyed - (origional ship launched & Fleet Carrier Recycled) before counting paid for wings.

Just my opinion though

Good point on this bit of bookkeeping being a nightmare to work if you count free ones as the first ones to be destroyed.

I still think simply marking paid for flights separately is the best solution though