Too many HP?

A

Anonymous

Guest
I have just got Conan d20 and I love it. However, I still find that the PCs seem to have too many HP. HP progression was necessary in D&D as BAB increased much higher relative to AC. In Conan this is less of an issue as each PC has a DV progression. The matter looked OK except that Armour is so damn good at reducing damage. The overal result is Conan seems less lethal than D&D.

I do recognise that with FP, maneuvers, massive damage and finesse there is an ability to take out opponents quickly but it appears to become an issue of circumventing HP rather than reducing them.

So in practice what are others experience on this matter?

I was considering a solution whereby PCs received their Con stat in HP at 1st level with a bonus of +1 to +3 HP every level based on the class. This would mean PCs would start with a little more but end up with less.

For example a healthy solider would start with 17 and end at 20th at just over 70. As it stands now the same Soldier would start with around 13 and end on well over 100.
 
If you are considering such a system, I would suggest just going with 1st level = Max for HD + CON bonus, +1+CON bonus per level.

That way, 1st level would be 10-14, a little easier to kill mooks by the dozen. Then you'd get +2 to +5 per level.

Code:
		 Base 6                           bonus                              
  level -4   -3   -2   -1   +0   +1   +2   +3   +4   +5   +6
    1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11   12
    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11   12   13
    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14
    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15
    5    6    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16
    6    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17
    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18
    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19
    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20
   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21
   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22
   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23
   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24
   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25
   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26
   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27
   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28
   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28   29
   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28   29   30
   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28   29   30   31

Base 10                           bonus                              
level  -4   -3   -2   -1    +0   +1   +2   +3   +4   +5   +6
    1    6    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16
    2    7    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17
    3    8    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18
    4    9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19
    5   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20
    6   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21
    7   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22
    8   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23
    9   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24
   10   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25
   11   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26
   12   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27
   13   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28
   14   19   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28   29
   15   20   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28   29   30
   16   21   22   23   24   25   26   27   28   29   30   31
   17   22   23   24   25   26   27   28   29   30   31   32
   18   23   24   25   26   27   28   29   30   31   32   33
   19   24   25   26   27   28   29   30   31   32   33   34
   20   25   26   27   28   29   30   31   32   33   34   35
 
Evilschemer said:
If you are considering such a system, I would suggest just going with 1st level = Max for HD + CON bonus, +1+CON bonus per level.

That way, 1st level would be 10-14, a little easier to kill mooks by the dozen. Then you'd get +2 to +5 per level.

However, assuming a mook has around a Con of 10 and is a 1st level Soldier, then his HP would by around 13 anyway.

For clarity, I am proposing:

HP at 1st level = Con score (9 to 18) + class bonus (+1 to +3) (starting total between 10 to 21).

HP increases thereafter = class bonus (+1 to +3) per level + any increases in Con score.

Scholar example

Artimus is a Scholar and has a Con of 10.

At 1st level, he begins with 11 HP.

At 10th level, he will have increased his Con to 12. So his HP would be 12 + 10, or 22.

In comparison to the existing rules, he would start with 6 HP and by 10th level he would have approx 47 HP.

Soldier example

Artax is a Soldier and has a Con of 14.

At 1st level, he begins with 17 HP.

At 10th level, he will have increased his Con to 16. So his HP would be 16 + 30, or 46.

In comparison to the existing rules, he would start with 12 HP and by 10th level he would have approx 89 HP.[/b]
 
Compare HP to the hero's ability to hew a 1st level soldier mook down in one or two swings.

Avg Damage = 1-10 + 0-5 + misc. feats and such = ~7 or 8

Once you figure in armor of 2-5, that's only 2-6 points of damage per hit.
 
Another way would be the Spycraft/Stargate:SG1/Star Wars method of counting CON as the character's Wound Points (WP) and the hit dice plus CON Bonus as Vitality Points (VP).

For a realistic feel you could come up with rates at which VP deplete over time. Perhaps something like this:
  • Per Round with light load: 0 for light activity, 1 for moderate activity, 2 for strenuous activity/combat
  • Per Round with medium load: 1 for light activity, 2 for moderate activity, 3 for strenuous activity/combat
  • Per Round with heavy load: 2 for light activity, 4 for moderate activity, 6 for strenuous activity/combat
This would cause Vitality to diminish even when doing things like climbing walls or jogging cross country and be a serious factor in determining combat readiness.

In the other system, whenever a Crit is scored, the damage is applied directly to WP and when that's gone, the character is dead. 0VP is unconcious and then you apply -1WP each round thereafter.

In Conan, this system would be pretty rough, but it definitely solves the HP problem. Since HP are even descirbed in the main Conan book as being "battle fatigue" more than physical damage, an arbitrary system of depleting HP due to character activity and encumberance would work also.
 
Evilschemer said:
Compare HP to the hero's ability to hew a 1st level soldier mook down in one or two swings.

Avg Damage = 1-10 + 0-5 + misc. feats and such = ~7 or 8

Once you figure in armor of 2-5, that's only 2-6 points of damage per hit.

True but my suggestion results in similar HP to the current system and to your suggestion at first level. So I think this is really another issue.
 
Sutek said:
Another way would be the Spycraft/Stargate:SG1/Star Wars method of counting CON as the character's Wound Points (WP) and the hit dice plus CON Bonus as Vitality Points (VP).

I too like the VP/WP system. It allows heroes to have lots of HP that they recover quickly, whilst mooks go down by the dozen at they have no VPs.

My only issue is that I personally like to avoid house rules. If I do adopt one I like it to be as simple as possible. VP/WP needs to come with additional considerations of healing, armour balance, finesse and spell effects.

As I like Conan as it currently stands for the most part I was looking for a solution that was similar to the existing rule system. Essentially, all I am doing is moving the HP progression from levels 11 and up back to level 1.
 
On that point, how would you add VP/WP to Conan?

- Healing rates - VP recovers at the same rate but per hour rather than per day. WP recovers at 1 per day (2 in good facilities). The use of healing skill increases VP. It can increase the WP recovery by +1 per day.

- Armor - should work the same as before. Finesse becomes less effective but still useful to take down heavily armoured foes (given that the damage in SW is roughly double that in Conan).

- Weapons - using Unearthed Arcana, all weapons have the same critical range. If a weapon has a x3 critical damage the range increases by 1, x4 by 2.

- Magic - for spells causing HP damage, all apply to VP unless a critical is scored on the Magical Attack roll. In which case it can be WP.

Anything else?
 
Hal said:
However, I still find that the PCs seem to have too many HP.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ADD MORE PICTS!!!!!

ADD MORE CIMMERIANS!!!!

ADD MORE SORCERERS!!! *

:p


* more hit points = more power points when said victim is ritually sacrified, bled dry, then fed to an outsider. Which all adds up to a happy sorcerer.
 
Darth Mikey said:
* more hit points = more power points when said victim is ritually sacrified, bled dry, then fed to an outsider. Which all adds up to a happy sorcerer.

Actually I would love to hear from those who found the HP levels to work in their Conan games. As said, I would prefer not to touch any of the rules, but just suspect that combat may be not as gory as I would like, and more attrition based instead :)
 
Real simple HP progression that keeps the flavor of Conan and maintains a base of the rules:

1st level = max HD + Con mod
2nd -20th level = add +1 HP for d6 HD classes, +2 HP for d8 HD classes, and +3 for d10 HD classes. the Con modifier is added only once (at 1st level) but is adjusted as Con increases.

This should tend to keep hit points under 100, even for 20th level characters.
 
I hate to say this Hal, but, you are not worthy of Conan if you think this game is not deadly. Not worthy, if you think PCs have to many HPs. Have you actually played this game? Or did you simply just read the rules.

Or....are you some weakling you needs to die by the sword?
 
Hal said:
On that point, how would you add VP/WP to Conan?

- Healing rates - VP recovers at the same rate but per hour rather than per day. WP recovers at 1 per day (2 in good facilities). The use of healing skill increases VP. It can increase the WP recovery by +1 per day.

- Armor - should work the same as before. Finesse becomes less effective but still useful to take down heavily armoured foes (given that the damage in SW is roughly double that in Conan).

- Weapons - using Unearthed Arcana, all weapons have the same critical range. If a weapon has a x3 critical damage the range increases by 1, x4 by 2.

- Magic - for spells causing HP damage, all apply to VP unless a critical is scored on the Magical Attack roll. In which case it can be WP.

Anything else?
  • The refrcovery rates are even faster than that. You can choose, during combat to do nothing but (Full Round Action) take waht is called a "Refresh Action", meaning you take a breath, get your wits about you, focus your combat readiness, whatever. This gets you 1d4 VP back per round or 2WP.

    That ammount is 1-5 levels. Because they have Action Dice (a number of dice spent or used as roll enhancers or "karma points" to aquire secial bonuses) PCs be using D10 for this same purpose at levels 16-20 and they get 6 dice, base, whereas at levels 1-5 they get only 3.
  • Finesse Weapons wouldnt' change. They'd still be about bypassing AP resistance values of armor, so in that light even more damage gets through. On a Crit where lots of damage is inflicted, with nor AP reduction, all that going to WP would be pretty nasty. Lot's of death, and usually in the hands of thieves and other sneaky folk.
  • Well, in Spycraft, to Crit all you need do is "burn" an action dice if you succesfully roll a threat. If I roll that Natural 20, I use an Action Die to call it a Critical Hit. Then, Crits damage always goes to WP instead of VP, so death is more assured. Remember, WP are on a scale based off of total CON (1-18 base) so there's not a lot to lose. I don't think you'll need to raise the multipliers.
  • Same for weapons. Yep.


However, bare in mond that there's no quick healing fix in Hyborea, so there's no scuttling off to a local temple of Pelor for a few healing potions or laying on of hands either (lol). Try the system as is first, even in just some mock combat and I think you'll see, it's pretty nasty for low level range to medium level range.
 
Warning: another needlessly long post by Argo. :roll: Those of you suffering from ADD need not apply.



Ahem, going by personal gameplay experience and accounts of actual gameplay experience I think that I can state, with no small ammount of certainty, that the one thing Conan is not is less deadly than stock DnD. This game is nasty, brutish and short.
And yes, it really is all about the massive damage. Characters without armor die fast. Even with armor if your opponent is perpared to crack your shell (not hard for most characters to be ready for with a little warning) you should still be facing a very real threat of one or two massive damage saves a round and even if you have the best Fort save in the world you will always have a minimum 5% chance of failure (and remember this basic design principal as well: players make more die rolls than NPC's so if you have bad things happen on low-probability rolls it disproportionaetly affects players). It depends somewhat on the level of the characters and the exact nature of the combat but if you aren't seeing at least one massive damage save every combat something is very wrong.

Moving on from massive damage. PC's in Conan do not have too many HP. Most players will probably top out somewehere abound 100-120 HP (hell, King Conan only has 137 at level 20) but by mid-levels any halfway competent damage twink should be able to produce an average damage output per round of 36-50 points per round (and that's a lowball estimate). By high levels I expect that average damage output to be somewhere closer to 54-75 points per round (again, I'm lowballing). Aimming a little higher I do not think an average output of 120 points per round to be at all unreasonable for a level 20 twink. Maximum possible damage at level 20 is probably something like 588 (648 on crits) points per round (not that you'll ever see it). So going back to our rather modest expectations of 50 points per round and even factoring in armor and taking out crits and massive damage you should expect most high level characters to have a life expectancy of 3-4 rounds. Which, not concidentally, is about the same as what their life expectancy was once they first breached the level 3 barrier. Personally one of my favorite aspects of the Conan system is how well character toughness scales (or does not scale, depending on how you look at it) with level. Mongoose did an excellent job here 8)

Moving on again, this time to the WP/VP argument. I have played in WP/VP games and messed around with adapting the system to other genres and my advice to you is to drop it. WP/VP has a lot going for it and it looks really good on the surface but dig around a little and it starts to come apart. WP/VP is best used to emulate modern/future gun combat; where people fight at range, with cover and with weapons that mostly all have critical ranges of 20. As soon as you try to use WP/VP to simulate melee combat, particularly fantasy melee combat the system starts to break down beginning with the corner cases. Famous examples include: injury poision, what to do with armor, and what to do with the entire universe that is crit threat ranges. The reason for this disparity between gun combat genres and melee combat generes is that in gun combat your attack options are mostly limited to the basic attack roll followed by damage roll, the focus of combat changes to tactical manuvering on the battle grid to jocky for advantage. In melee combat however the opposite is true, manuvering takes a back seat to the vast array of attack options, and WP/VP tends to shut down attack options.

But now that I have told you about the downsides of WP/VP I am going to tell you why you need not worry about all that (just cuz I can :wink:). I ask you, what are the principal advantages of WP/VP that everybody (including me) loves? Why it is that a) since crits go to WP any hit could potentially be fatal giving the game a dramatic tension b) since VP recover quickly characters can "give it their all" in an encounter then, in ture pulp style, be ready to do it again in a few hours time and c) since mooks oly get WP you can give bad guys enough levels to threaten the PC's but they go down quick so you can still use a horde of 'em (stormtrooper effect). Well my friend I am here to tell you that you can get all those same effects, without having to retrofit hall the ruleset, by the addition of one simple rule (that isn't really an addition at all) massive damage! A crit in WP/VP goes to the WP and so is a life-threating moment right? Well I cna almost guarantee that a crit in Conan will force a massive damage save (and probably one the enemy can't make) which makes it practically the same thing. Any blow could potentially be fatal so characters had better be carefull. And you don't have to try to adapt the system to a new means of tracking damage. Fruthermore characters in Conan do heal at a faster rate than standard, between Short-Term care and the fast healing rates I have found my players don't have to spend much time lying on their backs. But if that still isn't enough for you I can suggest an alternative rule that is much less intrusive than WP/VP: that is Reserve Points. Each character has a RP pool equal to his HP pool. Every ten minutes (thus making the rule useless in combat) he can transfer a number of RP from his RP pool to his HP pool until he is at full HP. RP heal at a rate equal to, and simeltaneous with, HP and any effect that heal HP heals an equal number of RP. Presto: character can fight in a battle down to their last HP and be ready to go again an hour or two later. As for killing mooks, well once again massive damage already handles that well enough, just check out any threads about players in full plate fighting Picts if you want proof. But if you still like the idea of mooks who only have WP you can easily get the same effect by rulling that all un-important NPC's do not gain hit dice but instead have HP=Con for their entire (short) lives. Easy. And look, most of these changes are already part of the Conan rules and they change the game system much less than WP/VP while keeping the same flavor. How cool is that? :lol:

So anyway I suggest you give the stock Conan rules a try before messing with them. I guarantee you if you are looking for a bloody game you will not be disapointed.

Good luck :twisted:
 
argo said:
...nasty, brutish and short.


mmmm....Hârnmaster....yummy...

:lol:

Anyway, yes, massive damage is the key to it all in Conan. At low levels, this won't ever be a factor, but once your characters get to where they can do 20 points of damage to something after Armor DR is taken into account (and remember AP values for weapons and Finesse weapons can bypass/negate Armor DR), that MD FORT save can be heafty.

Take a minimal example. 20pts of damage to some loon rediculous enough to show up to the fight with no armor on. He's having to make a FORT save against massive damage: (MD save DC = 10 + 1/2 damage dealt).

...ouch...

That's a DC 20 test and if he fails, he's at -1HP and dying. If it was non-lethal damage, he's unconcious if he fails.

I like the idea of a pool, but I'd be concerned about breaking the normal healing rules too much. However, I like the idea of using a Full Round action to recover a number of HP equal to one's CON bonus each round. If you've lost around 10 or less, this is worth while, but if it's more than that it's not going to do you much good so either the fight better end in your favor quickly or you'd better turn tail and run. I think I like this better as a mod of you pool idea, Argo.

argo said:
...any halfway competent damage twink...

Yes, but that's the thing. Any given party of PCs is going to have one player min/maxing to get dozens of points of damage per round, while the other folks are ther to role play (what are they thinking?!? :lol: ) Usually, for me, the "twinks" are in the minority and it's really hard to make an argument for or against a rule set based on how it can be taken advantage of. Other than that, decent point... :wink:
 
Sutek said:
argo said:
...any halfway competent damage twink...

Yes, but that's the thing. Any given party of PCs is going to have one player min/maxing to get dozens of points of damage per round, while the other folks are ther to role play (what are they thinking?!? :lol: ) Usually, for me, the "twinks" are in the minority and it's really hard to make an argument for or against a rule set based on how it can be taken advantage of. Other than that, decent point... :wink:

When I said halfway competent I meant halfway competent. I purpously lowballed those first two esitmates; any single class Barbarian or Soldier who put his highest stat in Str and uses a two-handed weapon ought to be able to hit 36 points per round just by tripping over his own two feet. You can't ask for a simpler character build than that. With a little thought and planning a Borderer, Nomad, Pirate or even Noble ought to be able to match that as well. I know from munchkin and believe me, we are not in munchkin land here.

Now the 120 figure requires a little more effort but I still wouldn't exactly call it a min/max.

I like the idea of using a Full Round action to recover a number of HP equal to one's CON bonus each round. If you've lost around 10 or less, this is worth while, but if it's more than that it's not going to do you much good so either the fight better end in your favor quickly or you'd better turn tail and run. I think I like this better as a mod of you pool idea, Argo.
Well I haven't actually tried playing with Reserve Points yet (the idea is from Unearthed Arcana) but the concept is that they can't be used in battle. This keeps your encounter balance the same (if players can draw on their pool in combat they effectievly become tougher) but lets them recover between fights without magical healing. So death in combat should be just as risky but if you survive any given combat your endurance over the course of the day is greater (allowing you that pulp-hero feeling of racing from one harrowing encounter to the next).

Personally I like the stock Conan healing rules just fine.

Hope that helps.
 
argo said:
When I said halfway competent I meant halfway competent. I purpously lowballed those first two esitmates; any single class Barbarian or Soldier who put his highest stat in Str and uses a two-handed weapon ought to be able to hit 36 points per round just by tripping over his own two feet. You can't ask for a simpler character build than that. With a little thought and planning a Borderer, Nomad, Pirate or even Noble ought to be able to match that as well. I know from munchkin and believe me, we are not in munchkin land here.

Now the 120 figure requires a little more effort but I still wouldn't exactly call it a min/max.

How are you arriving at that value? What feats? That may give folks a rough idea of why you're saying what you're saying. I don't know the feats well enough yet in Conan, and I can't think of any that would do it in D&D. Base STR Bonus of +4, boosted by level 8 to +6 with a 2 handed weapon with d12 damage is a range of 7-19pts per strike. Stuff like Power Attack can foctor in, but I can't think of anything that directly increases damage to the scale you're talking about unless a Crit is generated (x2 or x3 damage).

Also, how does Unearthed Arcanan suggest that the pool be replenished? It might make the difference in whether I use that system or the one I came up with above (or some variation thereof).
 
Sutek said:
argo said:
When I said halfway competent I meant halfway competent. I purpously lowballed those first two esitmates; any single class Barbarian or Soldier who put his highest stat in Str and uses a two-handed weapon ought to be able to hit 36 points per round just by tripping over his own two feet. You can't ask for a simpler character build than that. With a little thought and planning a Borderer, Nomad, Pirate or even Noble ought to be able to match that as well. I know from munchkin and believe me, we are not in munchkin land here.

Now the 120 figure requires a little more effort but I still wouldn't exactly call it a min/max.

How are you arriving at that value? What feats? That may give folks a rough idea of why you're saying what you're saying. I don't know the feats well enough yet in Conan, and I can't think of any that would do it in D&D. Base STR Bonus of +4, boosted by level 8 to +6 with a 2 handed weapon with d12 damage is a range of 7-19pts per strike. Stuff like Power Attack can foctor in, but I can't think of anything that directly increases damage to the scale you're talking about unless a Crit is generated (x2 or x3 damage).

Also, how does Unearthed Arcanan suggest that the pool be replenished? It might make the difference in whether I use that system or the one I came up with above (or some variation thereof).

The hit point issue was the one that took us the longest time to settle (I was among the playtesters).
It has been a long and bloody process (really!) to arrive at the actual system, and I assure you it works really, really well. I too am not a great fan of hit point systems, but the one in Conan works well due to lots of othere elements. As has been said before, the most critical factor you can alter without "playing" too much with the system is the massive damage threshold and the DC save for mdt.
A simple house roule is to replace the fixed 20 points by Con. This can make combat deadlier for mooks, and less deadly (but not so much) for high level characters. Anyway, just give the system a try, you will not be disappointed, really. Conan has been really a work of love by many people, I assure you!

cheers,
Antonio
 
Actually, substituting CON instead of the 20pt break for causing Massive Damage makes sense if creatures are taken into the equation. Look at a few though, CON is low. However, if in the instances where the FORT save bonus doesn't match the creature's CON bonus, if the values are added together it works out nicely.

Ex1: Ghouls are CON 13 creatures, but their FORT saves are +6. This bonus is obviously high for a CON 13, so the numbers added together would give the Massive Damage threshold of 19 for Ghouls.

Ex2: Earth Elementals are CON 17 and FORT +17 for crying out loud!!! They have DR14, but that makes characters who deal 34pts of damage potentially capable of knocking them unconcious in one blow. However, if the values for CON and FORT are added together, a Massive Damage threshold of 34 is arrived at, meaning that, accounting for the DR17 as well, more than 51pts of damage are needed to deliver Massive Damage to one of these things (34pts above the DR17 of the creature rather than 20pts above as indicated in the book).

Comments?
 
Sutek said:
How are you arriving at that value? What feats? That may give folks a rough idea of why you're saying what you're saying. I don't know the feats well enough yet in Conan, and I can't think of any that would do it in D&D. Base STR Bonus of +4, boosted by level 8 to +6 with a 2 handed weapon with d12 damage is a range of 7-19pts per strike. Stuff like Power Attack can foctor in, but I can't think of anything that directly increases damage to the scale you're talking about unless a Crit is generated (x2 or x3 damage).
Ok, but this is going to take a while.

Lets start with a lowball example. A Soldier 10 with Str 18 (pathetic) and Power Attack and Weapon Spec[polleaxe] He uses PA for 2 so that is: 2d6 + 6(Str) + 2(spec) + 4(PA) = 18 on average. For the purposes of estimating damage output against an unknown AC I usually assume that that a character with full BAB can make his two highest itterative attacks hit and miss with the rest. Two attacks at 18 each is 36 HP/round.

Now lets try a character that looks more like what I expect a typical Conan character to look like. A Barbarian 10 with Str 22 (now thats more like it) and Power Attack. He also has Weapon Focus[bardiche] and will PA for 1 so we get: 2d8 + 9(Str) + 2(PA) = 19 on average. Again, if we arbitrarily give him hits with his two highest attacks that makes for 38 HP/round.

Now I know what you are thinking; I promised you an easy build that "any single class Barbarian or Soldier who put his highest stat in Str and uses a two-handed weapon ought to be able to hit 36 points per round just by tripping over his own two feet." But both these guys are using Power Attack and that is a really complex feat to use, right? Well, it can be, and believe me I have seen all sorts of graphs and charts and excell sheets and calculators designed to compute the optimum PA for any given matchup. But it doesn't have to be that way. If you don't stress over finding the optimal PA anybody, even a novice more interested in roleplay than rollplay, can use the feat very effectievly by following their choice of a few simple strategies.

Option 1) Always PA for one point per itterative attack plus the value of any circumstance bonuses to attack. Thus a soldier 10 who has 2 attacks will PA for 2. By "circumstance bonus to attack" I mean miscelaneous bonuses for battelfield position; so if you are on high ground you PA for another point, if you are flanking or charging add another 2, if your opponent is prone add 4.

Option 2) Always PA for the value of your Weapon Focus feats plus the value of any enhancement bonuses from superior weapons plus the value of any circumstance bonuses to attack. Thus a character with Weapon Focus would PA for 1 while a character with Weapon Focus and a masterwork weapon would PA for 2. Circumstance bonuses are as described above.

Both these strategies opperate on the principal that a full BAB will eventually outsrtip your opponent's DV (unless you opponent is a defense twink :wink: ) thus classes with full BAB should always try to do something with their excess BAB. Honestly once you start thinking in terms of this pardagrim you realize that this is the true advantage of a full BAB: the ability to convert it into extra damage or protection or additional combat options, that is what makes full BAB classes such fierce melee opponents.

Option 3) All Power Attack, All The Time (or APAATT for short). Now this is one nasty piece of work right here :twisted: The plan is to always PA for your full BAB no matter what. You hit less often, making fights longer, but when you do hit it is a beautiful sight 8) Not only is this an easy strategy to play but it can be a lot of fun to play and can be a great roleplay aid if your character happens to be the battle-rager type ("Hulk smash!!!"). There are two ways for APAATT to work. One is if you have a lot of bonuses to hit from sources other than BAB (high Str, feats, cool gear, etc) and your opponents have a DV slightly lower than what is "average" for your level, in this case you may be hitting with a roll of 17 or 18 anyway so go nuts and get some mielage out of your Great Cleave feat. The other is if your opponent has really high DV to begin with and is generally tougher than you, in this case a good idea is not only to go all in with PA but also to max out Combat Expertise and fight defensevly as well (yes, it is legal to max out PA and CE at the same time) what you are doing is trying to make yourself invulneurable and wait for that Nat 20 to come up. I know it sounds wierd but it can be suprisingly effective. And the great thing about APAATT in this contex is that Conan has some benefits to make your wild swings even more attractive (god I love this game). For starters, if you go all in PA and hit I can almost guarantee you a massive damage save your opponent has no hope of making; so an APAATT character can count on flat out killing their opponent at least 5% of the time. Secondly everybody in Conan can Fight on the Run and APAATT favors single hits, this is particularly good for classes with the Manuverability ability chain as they can run at their enemy again and again suffering only one attack a round themselves but threatening their opponent with insta-death should they ever conect. A Barbarian 10 can have Power Attack and Fleet-Footed three times and move 30 feet, attack with APAATT, and move 30 feet out without provoking an AOO. Like I said, you may be suprised by just how effective this strategy can be (even if it does take longer to finish a fight, but hey, drag-out fights can be cool too) and it couldn't be easier for someone who is "just there to roleplay" to catch on to.

Maybe I'm just jaded from all my years of twinkage but to me this all seems like prety basic stuff. 8) Not really the kind of thing you have to be a "min/maxer" to engage in. Everything I have shown you here will work more or less on auto-pilot once you explain it the first time.

Now how about I show you someting a little more complex, just for contrast. This is a classic mid-difficulty twink I refer to as "The Blademaster". For this we will need a single class Soldier. He will use the greatsword and take Weapon Focus and Greater WF, Weapon Spec and Greater WS, Improved Crit and Greater Crit, and Power Attack of course. At level 20 will will imagine he has a 26 Str. If we make him Hyborian for the free Greatsword prof and favored class: any he also has fifteen (15) feats left over to play with. Lets have him PA for 4 and we will say once again that his first two attacks hit and the rest miss. That gives him: 2d10 + 12(Str) + 4(spec) + 8(PA) = 34 per hit or 68 per round. But he also has a crit threat range of 15-20. Statistically that may be only 25% but it is likely that, if facing an "apropriate" DV and given his PA of 4 he will only hit with his first hit if he rolls someting in the area of a 10 or better and his second hit will likely only connect if he rolls a 15 or so (these numbers may vary some). So it is very likely that he will wind up either criting or missing every time. So with crits that makes his damage 68 per hit or 136 per round. That my friend is worthy of being called a real life Twink 8) (though I still would not call such a character build a min/max, and it isn't even anywhere close to a true munchkin build). Also keep in mind that with Versatility a high-level Barbarian can remain competitive with this.

Anyway, I think I've rambled on long enough about this. Hope that helps.
 
Back
Top