Thrust to Change Range

[nats]

I tried vector movement a while back and its only fun when you have asteroids around and have to dodge around them. But it makes absolutely no sense to worry about vectors when you have 2 or 3 ships only because they are all moving very fast but are relatively static to each other, only the thrust matters. And with space ships thousands of miles makes very little difference to their accuracy so movement is relatively incidental. But its great fun when you have close asteroids (or planetary rings) around you.

 

[AndrewW]

I tried vector movement a while back and its only fun when you have asteroids around and have to dodge around them.

Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an asteroid field is approximately 3,720 to 1.

 

[phavoc]

This is where it can be interesting to get some minatures and hex maps and play out the space attack. Assuming you have some space objects to dart around (large enough to make a difference that is), then you can have your players doing their RP version of Han Solo flying and evading the nasty pirates or the inconvenient government forces on their tail.

Now that we have energy to consider, one way to look at it would be SFB-lite style rules. No need to keep vectors in mind, but still able to give visual representation of closing or being closed upon by the enemy.

 

[NOLATrav]

The thing that I don't understand in vectored thrust systems is when you get up to high speeds (say double your Thrust rating), what happens to the occupants of the ship? If my my scout is up to 4G after a couple turns, wouldn't the pilot start to feel g-forces? Never mind Ludicrous speed (9G and higher as some have demonstrated up thread).

I understand the basic concepts of continuous acceleration and the problems of vector change in that environment. But no one ever talks about the occupants. Curious about possible game mechanics that could mimic whatever the effects would be...

 

[wbnc]

The thing that I don't understand in vectored thrust systems is when you get up to high speeds (say double your Thrust rating), what happens to the occupants of the ship? If my my scout is up to 4G after a couple turns, wouldn't the pilot start to feel g-forces? Never mind Ludicrous speed (9G and higher as some have demonstrated up thread).

I understand the basic concepts of continuous acceleration and the problems of vector change in that environment. But no one ever talks about the occupants. Curious about possible game mechanics that could mimic whatever the effects would be...

Gee forces are only felt from changes in velocity. going form 20kph, to 200 Kph would be bone crushing, but cruising at 40,000Kph, or even 400,000 Kph wouldn't feel any different than riding in a going down a straight stretch of road.

conventional drive systems..such as high performance aircraft generate heavy gee forces in turns. Because the pilot is trying to go in a straight line( inertial force), and his plane is accelerating in several axis of movement at one. he is being pushed out by centrifugal force. so he has several different forces ganging up on him at the same time.

Since a ships drives cant generate more than their rating in change of velocity the worst the crew would feel it the max rating of the ship. even if the pilot is executing a major set of maneuvers at no time will Gee forces on any axis be stronger than the ships thrust rating....unless he cant evade that rock ahead at which point the crew may feel a lot of gees real fast.

even then gravitics, such as grav plates in the crew cabins can be used to cancel Gee forces generated by a ship. so unless someone tries something insane like doing a 4 Gee fly by and get a boost from a gas giant with a few gees of it's own...inside your going to get buffeting, and vibrations from maneuvers but not bone crushing Gee force.

 

[vladthemad]

Well I tried this out and while it adds one extra number to keep track of, it adds a lot to the game like a nice shot of believably without bogging everything down. As noted, when its 1v1, the existing system works fine as does this addition. In a 1v1 there would be little point to doing anything other than going straight towards or away from your opponent, so more complicated systems aren't really needed.

Of course both systems break down once you throw more than two ships into the mix.

 

[NOLATrav]

Gee forces are only felt from changes in velocity...

conventional drive systems..such as high performance aircraft generate heavy gee forces in turns...

Since a ships drives cant generate more than their rating in change of velocity the worst the crew would feel it the max rating of the ship...

even then gravitics, such as grav plates in the crew cabins can be used to cancel Gee forces generated by a ship...

This makes a lot of sense, thank you!

I'm still playing with the idea of gravitic compensation being a bank of sorts, to increase Thrust or overcome very strong gravity wells (for instance, a 2G ship has 2G for Thrust and 2G for inertial compensation. Turn off the grav plates and you can go faster! But now everyone's under 2G stresses...). Now i have a better concept to work with, much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[wbnc]

Gee forces are only felt from changes in velocity...

conventional drive systems..such as high performance aircraft generate heavy gee forces in turns...

Since a ships drives cant generate more than their rating in change of velocity the worst the crew would feel it the max rating of the ship...

even then gravitics, such as grav plates in the crew cabins can be used to cancel Gee forces generated by a ship...

This makes a lot of sense, thank you!

I'm still playing with the idea of gravitic compensation being a bank of sorts, to increase Thrust or overcome very strong gravity wells (for instance, a 2G ship has 2G for Thrust and 2G for inertial compensation. Turn off the grav plates and you can go faster! But now everyone's under 2G stresses...). Now i have a better concept to work with, much appreciated.

Cheers

Gee forces are a pain n the neck to visualize, partly because we tend to instinctively think in 2d modes of travel, and don't have an innate sense of acceleration beyond the slight push we feel. Partly because natural locomotion cant really generate any sort of Gee forces...well at least human locomotion.

now an educational experience I would encourage anyone to try...go up in an aerobatics rated airplane with a rated pilot. the book work, and practical education portion of a plots licence program,gives you a real solid basis to explain whats going on.

and outside loop... great education in positive versus negative gees, and centrifugal force....

 

[NOLATrav]

Actually I have done that, for a silly Discovery Channel show I went up in a biplane to photograph a wing walker doing various tricks like pouring a glass of water, lighting a match etc. It was all quite nice until the loops and rolls and banks made me realize how much space was in that old fuselage

It's what got me thinking about it in Trav terms in the first place and now that I recall the experience it was very much as you described - it was all pretty mellow, regardless of speed, until the quick maneuvers got you thinking about seat belts and harnesses and so forth.

 

[wbnc]

Actually I have done that, for a silly Discovery Channel show I went up in a biplane to photograph a wing walker doing various tricks like pouring a glass of water, lighting a match etc. It was all quite nice until the loops and rolls and banks made me realize how much space was in that old fuselage

It's what got me thinking about it in Trav terms in the first place and now that I recall the experience it was very much as you described - it was all pretty mellow, regardless of speed, until the quick maneuvers got you thinking about seat belts and harnesses and so forth.

I was in the rather impressed by how quickly the Gees built up then faded. from nothing to, oh my god there's an elephant on my chest!

I've seen documentaries, and interviews with old school pilots, one was a bomber dive bomber pilot in the pacific theater. He was jumped by zeros..usually a death sentence...but he was able to use his panes gee tolerance to evade them..side effect of his fancy flying was that he endured up to 9 gees at points for a 15 minute dog fight....which left him unable to walk without assistance when he landed( after knocking down few fighters)....not from injury..pure fatigue at having to breath at lift his arms under the gees.

So i figure a very fit crewman might be able to endure 9 gees off and on for fifteen minutes before becoming combat ineffective...but the crew ain't gonna be good for anything else after the adrenaline wears off.

with gee suits, and compensation the crew might be able to survive 9 gee maneuvers if they are in good shape and setting down....anyone on their feet will be bounced around like a ping pong ball in a coffee can...and likely very badly injured.