Thoughts on future products for MGT

[collins355]

If Mongoose were clever, they would develop and properly beta test a starship/vehicle/equipment design system (a la FF&S), but keep it in-house, and then use it to generate a host of starships/vehicles/equipment (a la Fighting Ships or 101 Vehicles or Central Supply Catalogue), and then release supplements containing those pre-designed vehicles/equipment first.

That would satisfy the majority of gamers, who I believe just want the output ready to use in a campaign and don't care for the minutae of a FF&S to design anything.

After that, release the design sequences as a separate product (with spreadsheet as download or whatever) for the gearheads and those who want to design their own stuff.

Result=consistency across product line. Starships, vehicles, guns, etc that match the design sequences (rather than tons of errata or handwaving to make stuff 'thought up' in early products match the eventual design sequences).

 

[MongooseMatt]

Umm, that is exactly what we are doing

 

[collins355]

Fair enough.

I look forward to the design sequences that will mesh seamlessly with some of the equipment in MGT Mercenary, or the vehicles in the core rulebook. :wink:

 

[Beastttt]

I want rules to build things other than starships
I want to build robots,small craft,and all sorts of stuff

 

[RandyT0001]

If Mongoose were clever, they would develop and properly beta test a starship/vehicle/equipment design system (a la FF&S), but keep it in-house, and then use it to generate a host of starships/vehicles/equipment (a la Fighting Ships or 101 Vehicles or Central Supply Catalogue), and then release supplements containing those pre-designed vehicles/equipment first.
(SNIP)
Result=consistency across product line. Starships, vehicles, guns, etc that match the design sequences (rather than tons of errata or handwaving to make stuff 'thought up' in early products match the eventual design sequences).

Umm, that is exactly what we are doing

I want to make sure that I understand what you're saying here Matt. The support weapons in Mercenary were designed using this existing but unpublished design system to have those specific effective ranges listed in the table on p. 105?

 

[Infojunky]

Fair enough.

I look forward to the design sequences that will mesh seamlessly with some of the equipment in MGT Mercenary, or the vehicles in the core rulebook. :wink:

See I don't have that expectation. As most of the numbers we have seen have been pretty arbitrary.

While I don't expect numbers to reflect "reality" the should at least relate to each other.

 

[mlooney]

Umm, that is exactly what we are doing

I want to make sure that I understand what you're saying here Matt. The support weapons in Mercenary were designed using this existing but unpublished design system to have those specific effective ranges listed in the table on p. 105?

I second this request. We have enough rules for re fighting Waterloo with plasma guns as it is. The ranges given on page 105 of Mercenary are, to put it mildly, tech level 3. Please tell your designers that Games Workshops WH40K rules are not to be used as a source. The modern day version of the "Frag Cannon" (Say, a M109A6 155mm SPG) has a range 22,000 meters and a minimum range of 4000 meters. The TL 5 version say a 25 pounder as an example has a range of 12250m. If an artillery crew is within 300 meters of the enemy they are in deep crap, even at TL 5. As a general hint, with the general exception of pre, say, 1865, artillery ranges are at least 10 times that of a current small arms. Rules that allow you to form up just out side of artillery range, and "charge the guns" are designed to re doing Waterloo, Gettysburg or the Crimean war, not any thing after them, much less far into the future. I understand Game's Workshops reasons for absurdly short ranges (they want to sell models of the guns and if they are off board they don't get to sell them) but as of this time I don't understand Mongoose's reason. The more I look at the weapon ranges in Mercenary, the more I hope you DON'T include the weapon tables in the Mercenary SRD. I need to stop bitching and start rule writing I suspect....

 

[Cleon the Mad]

I do agree that the Artillery weapons in Mercenary need redone, many of them do seem to have absurdly short ranges for starters, at least for the TL.

Anyway, to maybe be a bit more on topic for the thread title, I'd like to see a MGT version of "Citizens of the Imperium" personally. Sure, we have plenty of civilian careers in the core book, but many are "condensed" where one MGT civilian career might cover three "careers" that one might see in CT. Give an example, the MGT Drifter. I think having a suppliment that goes into more detail for each career class, with Barbarian, the "Wanderer" Drifter and Scavenger/Belter done as three seperate classes would be great. Same with rogue, at least maybe have two from that, the actual rogue and pirate done as two seperate careers in such a book. Scholar could be split into "Scientist" and "Physician" maybe, Noble could be split into three careers and so forth. Anyway, one where many, most or all of the civilian careers like split like that would be good. Giving each a 2d6 mishap table and d66 event table like what's done in Mercenary and I assume the upcoming High Guard IMO would be good also. The rest of the book could go into explaining what sort(s) of things are involved with each career in said book into a bit more detail. For instance, is the MGT concept of the barbarian anyone from let's say a TL 4 or less world? Or do they have to be truly barbaric and low tech also?

Anyway, any thoughts on that? Agree, disagree?

 

[Jeff Hopper]

Umm, that is exactly what we are doing

[Monty Python Voice - John Cleese]

And therefore Mongoose Publishing has established that they are, indeed, clever!

[/Monty Python Voice - John Cleese]

 

[klingsor]

I was looking at my copies of Fire, Fusion and Steel a few days ago after digging them out of the roofspace. The T4 version is horrible and the TNE one seems unusable but it has a lot of nice little notes on things such as synthetic arrays and terminal wound ballistics. A new version of this might be quite nice to have.

The promise of a cohesive design system is wonderful but might be very difficult to archive. There will be a constant fight against complexity. All of the systems I have seen tend to be too complicated, did anyone ever finish designing something in Striker? The original High Guard was the only book on this list that was easy to use.

Honoured Ancestors:
Striker
Traveller Book 2 (I think)
High Guard
Fire, Fusion & Steel (TNE)
Fire, Fusion & Steel (T4)

Worth a look:
Guns, Guns, Guns (BTRC)
VDS (BTRC)
Stuff (BTRC)

 

[TrippyHippy]

If Mongoose were really clever, they'd invent a time machine, go back in time, and release all the other published rpg titles ever as Mongoose books, and then return and sue all the other companies for copyright infringement. :wink:

 

[collins355]

I was looking at my copies of Fire, Fusion and Steel a few days ago after digging them out of the roofspace. The T4 version is horrible and the TNE one seems unusable but it has a lot of nice little notes on things such as synthetic arrays and terminal wound ballistics. A new version of this might be quite nice to have.

The promise of a cohesive design system is wonderful but might be very difficult to archive. There will be a constant fight against complexity. All of the systems I have seen tend to be too complicated, did anyone ever finish designing something in Striker? The original High Guard was the only book on this list that was easy to use.

Honoured Ancestors:
Striker
Traveller Book 2 (I think)
High Guard
Fire, Fusion & Steel (TNE)
Fire, Fusion & Steel (T4)

Worth a look:
Guns, Guns, Guns (BTRC)
VDS (BTRC)
Stuff (BTRC)

Thats why I'd suggest releasing supplements full of finished designs first (like MGT versions of Fighting Ships, Traders & Gunboats, Adventure Class Ships, 101 Vehicles, Emperor's Arsenal, etc) - with the proviso that these are designed in a manner consistent with the in-house near-universal design system.

Then release the design system for the gearheads, along with (most crucially) a spreadsheet that can be used to design the stuff quickly.

To answer your question, yes I've designed hundreds of vehicles/items using original Striker and FF&S - but only after making spreadsheets for them (approx time to do one design then falls into the 5-10 minutes range). The great Rob Dean did likewise for MegaTraveller (you can find many of his designs online to this day). The other advantage of a spreadsheet is that min-maxing your craft becomes a trivial exercise. No more rubbish designs like the MegaTraveller 'Trepida' and 'Astrin'.

 

[klingsor]

I agree. A book with nice gear and deckplans (if appropriate) would be great. In fact if the design book were out first it would make a great competition - with the top designs going into the gear books. Which would be nice PDF products if not quite print ones.

My experiences of spreadsheets postdate the older Traveller editions except for T4 though I did teach myself how to use a spreadsheet designing ships for Full Thrust. I have a half done sheet for Mongoose Traveller ships but it has stalled. I learned a few nice new tricks in Excel because of it though.

 

[Infojunky]

My experiences of spreadsheets postdate the older Traveller editions except for T4 though I did teach myself how to use a spreadsheet designing ships for Full Thrust. I have a half done sheet for Mongoose Traveller ships but it has stalled. I learned a few nice new tricks in Excel because of it though.

From the looks of things is a spread sheet even necessary for MGT's ship design?

 

[klingsor]

No, but I like spreadsheets.

 

[klingsor]

In an entirely platonic way of course.

 

[newtraveller]

I'd like to see a Monster Manual.

 

[Infojunky]

No, but I like spreadsheets.

Well, Ok then.....

 

[GypsyComet]

I was looking at my copies of Fire, Fusion and Steel a few days ago after digging them out of the roofspace. The T4 version is horrible and the TNE one seems unusable but it has a lot of nice little notes on things such as synthetic arrays and terminal wound ballistics. A new version of this might be quite nice to have.

The promise of a cohesive design system is wonderful but might be very difficult to archive. There will be a constant fight against complexity. All of the systems I have seen tend to be too complicated, did anyone ever finish designing something in Striker? The original High Guard was the only book on this list that was easy to use.

Honoured Ancestors:
Striker
Traveller Book 2 (I think)
High Guard
Fire, Fusion & Steel (TNE)
Fire, Fusion & Steel (T4)

Worth a look:
Guns, Guns, Guns (BTRC)
VDS (BTRC)
Stuff (BTRC)

I did a few designs in Striker by hand, yes. Not a lot of "go back and fiddle" iterations, mind you, but they were otherwise "complete".

Too many people ignore Book 2, feeling that it was replaced by High Guard. This is not the case, but brick walls are more receptive than most CT fans you bring this up to.

The craft design rules in MT also got a LOT of use. Despite the typos and lack of basic assumption statements, I and others did a lot of stuff out of those rules.

FF&S - TNE also got a fair bit of use, though by then I had a computer to help me tinker.

I flipped through FF&S - T4 and didn't bother. Presentation is very important in such a book, and between the hideous typographical errors perpetrated by the publisher and the crippling layout decisions of Imperium Games, the book was useless. The QSDS got quite a bit of use, though.

And that makes the effort of T4 a good goal to use, in my mind, even if the results were badly lacking. Give me two different levels of ship design and a bits building system to go with, as well as a few books full of finished stuff compatible with those rules, and you've taken care of all of the Traveller gearhead degrees (from "nah" to "moar!"). Today's gamer like chrome, so if Mongoose were to do a "Glisten Yards Catalog, 1106 Edition", they would make a lot of the "just let me play!" crowd happy, while the follow-up "FF&S - MGT" that lets the old gearheads tinker under the hood of the Glisten Yards book would appeal to a different crowd.

I both run and play Traveller, and I'm an old gearhead at heart. I'll use *everything*.

 

[Klaus Kipling]

I'd like to see a Monster Manual.

Um, quite a good idea.

A comprehensive list of critters would save the ref a massive job. Exploring alien worlds requires lots and lots of critters. Now while I find the prospect of detailing dozens of npc's quite tasty, doing the same for critter design just ain't as much fun.