Thoughts on Armor

Armor:

There are two basic kinds of armor, each of which has several subdivisions, depending on how the armor is made and what it is made of.

Flexible Armor
This armor is the easiest to move in, the easiest to wear and has the best coverage, but sacrifices protective power. It does well against slashing or raking attacks, and has tolerable protection versus chopping or impaling attacks, but suffers versus impact or crushing attacks, due to the armor's flexibility.

Types of flexible armor.

Fabric: any tough or stiffened fabric type material can be used as at least minimal armor. Modern "bullet-proof" armors are of this type, for instance. The mechanical effects of fabric armor are entirely dependant on what it is made of. It generally comprises the lightest and least confining, but at the same time least protective armor. Fabric can provide "complete" coverage, if desired.

Fabric can be reinforced or stiffened by varius means to provide extra protection.

Fabric can be formed into almost any kind of covering, depending on its characteristics.

Mail (or "maille"): The classic medevial armor, maille is made of tough and strong (i.e. non-flexible) material that is formed into rings which are then interlinked with each other to form a type of "metal fabric". It is almost as flexible as cloth or leather (though obviously much heavier), but lacks impact protection and for that reason is almost always worn over padding of some type. Like fabric, maille can provide "complete" coverage, if desired. Mail is almost as protective as hardened plate versus "slashing" type attacks, and reasonably protective vesrus "chopping" type attacks, but "piercing" attacks have a tendancy to spread the individual rings of which the maille is composed (severely hampering resistance), and maille has almost no resistance to crushing impacts.

Maille can be made in several ways, to varying effect. The "standard" "chainmail" is composed of mild steel wire rings of around 16 gauge, formed into ring-shaped links from 1/2" to 3/8" across, each ring linked to four others and the ends butted together. A shirt of maille of this type would weigh around 25 pounds.

In "flattened" mail, the armorer used heavier wire to form the links, and then hammered them into the resemblance of flatwashers, creating a much heavier, but also much more resistant weave. A mailshirt of this type would weigh around 45 pounds.

In "riveted" or "welded" mail, the armorer makes the rings slighlty longer, so that the ends overlap. He then beats the ends of each individual link together and welds them or rivets them into one piece. This adds little weight to the shirt, but greatly increases its resistance to piercing impacts, as the riveted links will not generally spread apart. Needless to say, it also greatly increases the time and effort expended on each piece of armor, and so the cost of the suit.

In "double" mail, the armorer links each individual link to more of its fellows than the usual four. This both creates a denser weave, and stiffens the weave slightly. Like "flattened" mail, "double" mail is much heavier than a standard suit.

In "hero's" mail, the armorer uses thinner wire to make much smaller links, creating an effect that has been called "liquid steel". A shirt of 17 gauge wire in 3/16" links would be almost impenetrable to a sword blow, but would weigh almost 35 pounds. This is, by far, the most expensive kind of maille.

The various kinds of maille can be "stacked" assuming you can find an armorer who is willing to do so. So, you could have a hauberk of flattened, double welded hero's mail, assuming you were, y'know, batshit insane or something.

Maille can be formed into Shirts, protecting the torso, shoulders, waist and groin; Hauberks, protecting the torso, shoulders, upper and usually lower arms, waist, groin and upper legs; Leggings, protecting the legs, but not usually the feet or groin; Sleeves, protecting the arms; Gloves (or rather mittens) protecting the hands; Mantles (called "bishop's mantles"), protecting the shoulders and upper chest; and Coifs, protecting the head and neck.

Lamellar: also called, in various forms, "scalemail" and "brigandine", Lamellar armor consists of small plates of tough material (generally metal) called "lamelles" or "scales", depending on their shape. Theses plates may either be sewed to an underlayer of tough fabric, sewed into pockets _inside_ the actual garment (both the medevial armor called "brigandine" and modern "bulletproof" vest's "ballistic inserts" work in this way), or even connected to each other in a semi-flexible "fabric" (some of the best Japanese armor works like this).

Lamellar varies in protective ability depending on how large the lamelles are and how much they overlap each other. Unfortunately, lamellar's flexiblity, comfort, and weight vary inversely with exactly the same factors. Lamellar resists chopping and slashing blows quite well. It is also fairly resistant to piercing impact, and, depending on how it is made, to crushing impact. On the down side, lamellar that is poorly overlapped can suffer from blades or points "skidding" off of one layer and coming up _under_ the layer above it, therby compromising protection. The individual lamelles are also vulnerable to being torn away from the rest of the suit, sometimes in large sections. For this reason, lamellar is also highly maintenance-intensive. The better varieties are also quite heavy: often heavier than the same suit in pure plate armor would be.

Lamellar can be formed into: Corselets, protecting the torso, shoulders and waist; Hauberks, protecting the torso, shoulders, upper arms, waist and upper legs. Additional protection is generally provided by plate greaves, vambraces, pauldrons, helmets and suchlike. It should also be noted that the more protective types of lamellar are also much stiffer, and thereby, of necessity, leave greater gaps in coverage around joints and the edges of major pieces in a suit.

Plate (or "nonflexible") Armor
This armor has the greatest resistance to all types of damage, but is also the least flexible and requires the greatest expertise to forge properly. Also, because plate armor does not, of itself, bend, joints and the interconnections between plates must either be covered by expensive and difficult to produce, don and maintain jointed plates, be covered by some type of Flexible armor (generally maille), or left uncovered.

Solid Plate: Made of single pieces of solid metal (usually) plate, this is the toughest and most resistant type of armor available. It is also frequently lighter than other types of armor offering similar protection, because the unjointed plate requires less material for a given area of protection than the often overlapping bands or rings required by other styles. 15th and 16th century "plate-of-proof" could withstand the impact of a .60 caliber musket at short range, and were more or less invulnerable to most types of hand weapons: maces and thick-bladed axes could sometimes penetrate, and spiked warhammers were still dangerous, but the most common end for a fully plate-armored warrior was to be knocked down and stunned by a massive blow from a mace or halberd, and then to take a dagger through an eyeslot. It should be noted that there can be no such thing as a "full suit" of solid plate, as such a suit of armor would be completely inflexible. Even the best plate, then, must resort to jointed or banded reinforcement on the outsides of joints (such as the neck, elbows, knees, hands and feet, and to mail re-inforcement on the inner parts of the elbow, knees and groin.

Jointed (or "segmented", or "banded") Plate: as mentioned above, all plate armors that attempt to cover an area that must move or slide must resort to segmented or jointed plates. Thus, this variety of armor solely refers to those suits that, like the Roman Lorica segmentat, use jointed plates over main protective areas, such as the torso, or the long bones of the arm or leg. This armor is both more expensive to make, and slighlty heavier than solid plate. It also takes longer to don, as the points or ties that hold the plates in alignment must be adjusted. It does, however, provide greater flexibility and comfort, which is important in some uses.

Plate armor, of all types, can be formed into: Breastplates, protecting the front of the torso only; Corselets or Cuirasses, protecting the whole torso; Greaves, protecting part or all of the legs; Bracers, protecting part or all of the arms; Pauldrons, protecting the shoulders; Gorgets, protecting the neck; Bevors, protecting the neck and face; Gauntlets, protecting the hands; and Sollerets, protecting the feet. There are also a wide and varied list of small pieces (such as cuisses, tassets, cuishes and faulds, among many others) that fill specific and highly specialised roles. Plate is also the most common form of head protection in the form of Hlemets, of which there are many varieties and styles.

Mechanics: (first draft)
Armor has: Damage Reduction (DR), Coverage (CV), Max Dex Bonus (Max Dex), Armor Check Penalty (ACP), Hit Points (HP), Weight (wt), and Fatigue Penalty (Fat). It may also have a speed reduction. Usually, the weight of armor is considered "well distributed", and therefor only counts half-value for encumbrance purposes (if worn).

Almost all of these statistics are the same as in the Conan OGL RPG, with the exception that Coverage represents the amount by which the wearer's DV must be exceeded in a Finesse Attack to negate the armor's DR (see Finesse Attack); Arcane Spell Failure percentage, which is instead replaced by applying the armor's ACP to the sorcerer's Magic Attack roll; and the Fatigue Penalty, which adds to the wearers DC to avoid or reduce environment penalties for long term wear in difficult conditions (optional rule).

Armor comes in "suits", relating to the total area covered.
"One-Quarter" suits represent coverage of the limbs only, down to a saet of greaves and a guard on the weapon arm. 1/4 suits generally have a CV of 4.

"Cuirasses" represent coverage of the torso only. They may also be called "shirts", "corselets" or "breastplates" (front only). Cuirasses generally have a CV of 5.

"One-Half" suits represent coverage of the torso, waist and shoulders, plus sometimes the upper arms. Some "mail shirts" are of this type. 1/2 suits generally have a CV of 6.

"Three-Quarter" suits represent coverage of the torso, waist, upper and lower arms and at least part of the legs. This type may also be called a "hauberk". 3/4 suits generally have a CV of 8.

"Full" suits represent coverage of all major body areas, with at least some coverage for joints and cracks. Full suits generally have a CV of 10.

"Tough Fabric" suits have a DR of 3 or 4. A 1/2 suit weighs 5-10 pounds.

"Mail" suits have a DR of 6. A half suit weighs 25 pounds. Standard mail has an innate penalty of -3 to its DR vs. attacks of the Crushing or Piercing type, but has an innate bonus of +2 to its DR vs. Slashing attacks whose AP value does not exceed 6.

Light Lamellar suits have a DR of 5. They weigh 10-15 pounds for a half suit, and have an innate penalty of -2 to their DR vs. Crushing attacks.

Medium Lamellar suits have a DR of 6. A half suit weighs 30 pounds. Medium Lamellar has an innate penalty of -2 to its DR vs. Crushing attacks.

Heavy Lamellar suits have a DR of 7. A half suit weighs 40 pounds. Medium Lamellar has an innate penalty of -1 to its DR vs. Crushing attacks, but an innate bonus of +1 to its DR vs. Slashing attacks.

Lamellar in general takes a penalty of -1 to it's CV.

Segmented Plate suits have a DR of 9. A half suit weighs 20-25 pounds.

Solid Plate suits have a DR of 10. A half suit weighs 20 pounds.

Individual types of armor may be somewhat lighter or heavier, for a small penalty or gain to DR or CV.

Helmets have a ACP that affects Sense tests only, a Fat that stacks with the suit Fat, a bonus to CV that stacks with the suit CV, and a weight.

Steel helmets worn alone grant a DR of 9. Bronze grant a DR of 8. Leather grant DR 4. A stacked Great Helm would have a DR of 10, although what someone is doing wearing a stacked Great Helm and no other armor I don't know.

Half helmets cover the top of the head. They have a CV bonus of 1 and no ACP.
Three-Quarter helmets cover the top of the head and some of the sides, neck, and face. They have a CV bonus of +2 and an ACP of -1.
Full helmets cover the whole head, but have gaps. They have a CV bonus of +3 and an ACP of -3.
Close helmets cover most of the head and neck, with a visor that can be lowered to cover the face. Visor up they are CV+2, ACP-1. Visor down they are CV+4, ACP-3.
Great Helms Cover the whole head with silts for eyes and airholes for breathing. They can be stacked over a coif and steel cap for additional DR vs. called shots. They provide CV+4, ACP-5.

Half helms weigh about 3 pounds, 3/4 about 4, and full, close, and great helms about 5.

Shields add their Shield bonus to CV, even if their wearer is dodging the attack.

Finesse attacks are possible with any weapon that is not ungainly. They work as indicated in the Conan OGL ruleset, but must exceed the CV value of the target's armor to avoid its DR, instead of exceeding the DR directly. Those weapons which are currently marked as "finessable" are remarked as "precision". A "precision" weapon gains an equipment bonus of +2 on the attack roll to exceed the CV in a Finesse Attack only! All missile weapons are marked as "precision" within one range increment.

Full armor lists to follow, including the Conan types, plus others drawn from history.
 

GhostWolf69

Mongoose
Nice job, I'm impressed.

I probably won't use this im my campaign though cause I like to keep things simple. But still... Good work.

/wolf
 

Yokiboy

Mongoose
I'm with GhostWolf69 on this one, nice work, but a bit much for my campaign. I would've loved this as a teenager, but have found that a balance between realism and quick gameplay is so important in my own games.

I was looking through the weapons lists in Conan and was pleased by the fact that most bludgeoning weapons already have pretty high AP ratings, this was all the realism I needed. :p

I will still keep an eye on this thread and might steal a few ideas once we've mastered the original rules and are ready to take on more.

TTFN,

Yokiboy
 
It's really just a question of how much book-keeping you're willing to put up with for a little extra realism.

F'instance, on review there's really no reason at all to have a "fatigue" penalty when you could just apply the Armor Check Penalty to anything it was supposed to apply to.

F'another instance, as you mention, the penalties to DR vs. Crushing and / or piercing for maille and lamellar could easily go away just by upping the AP values of any weapon that was importantly impacted by them a point or two.

This applies to mighty longbows and other AP heavy bows, really.

You could have a fairly smooth progression of:
Light leather/padded cloth/feathers = DR2
Quilted or stiffened linen = DR3
Heavy Leather/Cuirboulli = DR4
Light Scale = DR5
Medium Scale/Brigandine/mail = DR6
Heavy scale / doublemail = DR7
Composite = DR8
Banded plate / Heavy Coat-of-plates = DR9
Plate Armor = DR10
if you wanted, which would look realistic, although I'm not sure how it would truely stand up to a combat test.

The only question is if you want to differentiate between, e.g, medium scale and medium chain, and, if so, how and how much book-keeping you are willing to put up with.


As I say, I'm working on a combined list.
 

GhostWolf69

Mongoose
Speaker-to-Dreamworlds said:
It's really just a question of how much book-keeping you're willing to put up with for a little extra realism.

Here is probably were I see it differently.

Cause I cannot for the life of me see how:
"book-keeping in combat" = "Realism"

To me Combat is more "real" if it is:
Fast, furious, panting-breath, flashing-blades, and cold death.

As soon as I feel like there is "book-keeping" to be done... the "realism" is lost. Book-keeping is sort of "Realistic Anti-Matter" in my book. Some of it has to be done to get the rules flowing, but I agree with the previous poster that a balance between the two is crucial.

/wolf
 
By "realism", I mean, of course "versimilitude". I.e. I don't care how close to actuality it is so much as whether it "feels" better. A case of milage varying widely, of course.

Regardless, I return to put down the stats of some basic armor types, some exotic and unusual types and ask a few questions.

Question the first: how much maximum Coverage should a helmet provide?

The thing is that there are five categories of helmets (one of which, admittedly, is the visored/bevored "close" helmet, which can act as either a lighter or a heavier type, depending on whether the visor is down or not), four of which have increasing degrees of coverage and, inversely, penalties to fatigue and sight/hearing.

On the one hand, having four functional categories of helmet would mean that Great Helms would have a CV bonus of +4, which is the same as a Breastplate, which seems silly.
On the other hand, one of the classic "weird" armor types is the Roman "Gladiator" style kilt-and-armguard-and-great Helm. If you were lucky, you got greaves, too.
On the gripping hand, the more protective helmets could be distinguished by something other than CV & ACP, but that can get very fiddly in a big hurry.

One possibility is to remove the lowest category, assuming that all armors come with some kind of helmet. Since the lowest category ("Cap" Helms, "War Hats", maille coifs and such) have no ACP associated, they could just be assumed. This does, however, beg the question of the player who would rather have his or her silky hair flying free in the breeze, of course.

So, I put it to a vote: would you rather see a mechanical difference between this:

War%20Hat.jpg


this:

brtyi.jpg


this:

Corinthian%20Helmet.jpg


and this:

great_helm_45.jpg


or not? I guess I should post a poll, or something.

Onwards!

Serious Armors, by suit type.

Quilted Gambeson, or Heavy Leather, reinforced by studs. DR 4
Corselet: covers torso, upper waist, shoulders, most of arms. 1/2 Suit.
30 sp, DR 4, CV 6, MaxD +6, ACP -1, HP10, Light Armor, 5 pounds
Hauberk: covers torso, shoulders, arms, waist, upper legs. 3/4 suit
45 sp, DR 4, CV 8, MaxD +6, ACP -2, HP10, Light Armor, 8 pounds
Arming Doublet: covers whole body, no studs. Full suit.
30 sp, DR 3, CV 8, MaxD +6, ACP -1, HP5, Light Armor, 6 pounds

Light Brigandine: Light Lamellar vest, brigandine style, over gambeson. Bracers and Greaves of light metal or Cuirboulli, or studded leather.
Vest: Gambeson and Brig. vest. Torso, shoulders, upper arms. Corselet.
45 sp, DR 5, CV 5, Max D +5, ACP -2, HP 15, Light Armor, 10 pounds
Vest + Bracers: Torso, shoulders, arms. 1/2 suit.
55 sp, DR 5, CV 6, Max D +5, ACP -2, HP 15, Light Armor, 12 pounds.
Hauberk: longer Gambeson and vest. Torso, Shoulders, arms, waist, upper legs. 3/4 suit.
75 sp, DR 5, CV 7, Max D +4, ACP -3, HP 15, Light Armor, 15 pounds.
Reinforced Hauberk: add greaves, Maille mantle. Full suit.
100 sp, DR 5, CV 9, Max D +3, ACP -4, HP 15, Medium Armor, 22 pounds.

Full Brigandine: Medium Lamellar vest, brigandine style, over gambeson. Bracers and Greaves of light metal or Cuirboulli, or studded leather.
Vest: Gambeson and Brig. vest. Torso, shoulders, upper arms. Corselet.
90 sp, DR 6, CV 5, Max D +5, ACP -3, HP 20, Medium Armor, 20 pounds
Vest + Bracers: Torso, shoulders, arms. 1/2 suit.
100 sp, DR 6, CV 6, Max D +5, ACP -3, HP 20, Medium Armor, 22 pounds.
Hauberk: longer Gambeson and vest. Torso, Shoulders, arms, waist, upper legs. 3/4 suit.
160 sp, DR 6, CV 7, Max D +4, ACP -4, HP 20, Medium Armor, 30 pounds.
Reinforced Hauberk: add greaves, Maille mantle. Full suit.
185 sp, DR 7, CV 9, Max D +3, ACP -5, HP 20, Medium Armor, 32 pounds.

"Scalemail": Medium Lamellar Corselet or Hauberk. "Fishmail" style. Metal bracers or greaves. DR 6.
Corselet: Torso, shoulders, upper arms. Corselet.
100 sp, DR 6, CV 4, Max D +3, ACP -4, HP 15, Medium Armor, 30 pounds.
Extended Corselet: add Bracers, Tassets. Torso, shoulders, arms, waist. 1/2 suit.
130 sp, DR 6, CV 6, Max D +3, ACP -5, HP 15, Medium Armor, 35 pounds
Hauberk: Torso, shoulders, arms, waist, upper legs. 3/4 suit
175 sp, DR 6, CV 7, Max D +2, ACP -6, HP 15, Heavy Armor, 40 pounds.
Panoply: Hauberk + Greaves, Bracers. Full suit.
250 sp, DR 6, CV 9, Max D +1, ACP -8, HP 15, Heavy Armor, 45 pounds.

Full Lamellar: Heavy double-linked Lamellar Corselet, with medium Lamellar extensions. Steel Greaves and Vambraces. DR 7
Corselet: Torso, shoulders, upper arms. Corselet.
300 sp, DR 7, CV 4, Max D +3, ACP -4, HP 20, Medium Armor, 30 pounds.
Extended Corselet + Bracers. Torso, shoulders, arms, waist. 1/2 suit.
400 sp, DR 7, CV 6, Max D +3, ACP -5, HP 20, Medium Armor, 32 pounds
Hauberk: Torso, shoulders, arms, waist, upper legs. 3/4 suit
500 sp, DR 7, CV 7, Max D +3, ACP -6, HP 20, Medium Armor, 35 pounds.
Panoply: Hauberk + Greaves, Bracers. Full suit.
650 sp, DR 7, CV 9, Max D +2, ACP -7, HP 20, Heavy Armor, 42 pounds.

Reinforced Maille. Maille Hauberk, Light Brigandine vest. Steel Bracers+ greaves. DR 8
Hauberk: +Bracers. Torso, shoulders, arms, waist, upper legs. 3/4 suit.
900 sp, DR 8, CV 8, Max D +3, ACP -5, HP 20, Heavy Armor, 45 pounds.
Panoply: Hauberk + maille leggings, bracers, greaves. Full suit.
1000 sp, DR 8, CV 10, Max D +2, ACP -7, HP 20, Heavy Armor, 55 pounds.

Coat-of-plates. Maille Hauberk, Heavy Brigandine vest. Steel Bracers+ greaves. DR 9
Hauberk: +Bracers. Torso, shoulders, arms, waist, upper legs. 3/4 suit.
1200 sp, DR 9, CV 8, Max D +1, ACP -9, HP 25, Heavy Armor, 55 pounds.
Panoply: Hauberk + maille leggings, bracers, greaves. Full suit.
1300 sp, DR 9, CV 10, Max D +0, ACP -10, HP 25, Heavy Armor, 65 pounds.

Plate-of-proof. Solid plate, with segmented joint guards and mail reinforcement. DR 10
Cuirass: Cuirass +cuisses, tassets. Torso, shoulders, waist. Corselet.
2000 sp, DR 10, CV 4, Max D +4, ACP -4, HP 30, Light Armor, 20 pounds
Half Armor: Torso, Shoulders, arms, waist. 1/2 suit.
3000 sp, DR 10, CV 6, Max D +4, ACP -5, HP 30, Medium Armor, 30 pounds
Three Quarter Armor: Torso, shoulders, arms, waist, upper legs. 3/4 suit.
4500 sp, DR 10, CV 8, Max D +3, ACP -6, HP 30, Heavy Armor, 40 pounds
Field Plate: full suit
6000 sp, DR 10, CV 9, Max D +3, ACP -7, HP 30, Medium Armor, 50 pounds
Full Plate: full suit, reinforced.
7000 sp, DR 11, CV 10, Max D +3, ACP -8, HP 30, Medium Armor, 60 pounds

Now "maille" or "chainmail", which is slightly strange.

Maille: "Standard" maille. 16 gauge wire, 3/8ths rings. DR7*
Mail Shirt: Torso, shoulders, upper arms. Corselet.
400 sp, DR 7*, CV 5, Max D+5, ACP -3, HP 20, Light Armor, 20 pounds.
Long Mail Shirt: Torso, shoulders, arms. 1/2 suit
500 sp, DR 7*, CV 6, Max D+5, ACP -3, HP 20, Light Armor, 25 pounds.
Mail Hauberk: Torso, shoulders, arms, waist, upper legs. 3/4 suit.
800 sp, DR 7*, CV 8, Max D+5, ACP -5, HP 20, Medium Armor, 35 pounds.
Mail Panoply: Hauberk + leggings. Full suit.
1000 sp, DR 7*, CV 10, Max D+4, ACP -6, HP 20, Heavy Armor, 45 pounds.
*note: the DR of Maille is 7 vs. Slashing attacks, but 4 vs. Blunt and Piercing attacks.

For 50% over the base price, a Superior suit of maille can be made Riveted or Welded, removing the DR penalty to Piercing attacks.
For 100% over the base price, a Superior suit of maille can be made Double or Flattened, increasing the DR vs. Blunt and Piercing attacks to 5.
For 300% over the base price, a Superior suit of maille may be made Flattened and Riveted, allowing DR 7 vs. all attacks.

Hero's Maille: "Dense" maille. 17 gauge wire, 3/16ths rings. DR8* This type of armor is always Superior.
Hero's Mail Shirt: Torso, shoulders, upper arms. Corselet.
2400 sp, DR 8*, CV 5, Max D+6, ACP -2, HP 25, Lightt Armor, 25 pounds.
Hero's Mail Long Shirt: Torso, shoulders, arms. 1/2 suit
3000 sp, DR 8*, CV 6, Max D+6, ACP -2, HP 25, Light Armor, 30 pounds.
Hero's Mail Hauberk: Torso, shoulders, arms, waist, upper legs. 3/4 suit.
4800 sp, DR 8*, CV 8, Max D+6, ACP -4, HP 25, Medium Armor, 45 pounds.
Hero's Mail Panoply: Hauberk + leggings. Full suit.
6000 sp, DR 8*, CV 10, Max D+5, ACP -5, HP 25, Medium Armor, 50 pounds.
*note: the DR of Hero's Maille is 8 vs. Slashing attacks, but 6 vs. Blunt and Piercing attacks.

For ten times the cost, and a reputation for raving lunacy, a suit of Hero's Mail may be made "Perfect" (Doubled and Welded) for a DR of 8 vs. all attacks.

Next, some historicly "odd" suits.
 

S'mon

Mongoose
Your pics are already distinguished by the RPG - the first is a 'steel cap' or helmet (+1), the second is a great helm (+2).

edit: I mean the 2 pics visible on my screen - 1st is Roman legionary helmet, 2nd is a medieval great helm. Since Conan RPG gives visored helm as +1/+2 it's clear the Legionary helmet is a +1er. Anything much lighter than the legionary helmet, say a padded cap, I'd rate +0.
 
Nutsoid. There was supposed to be a "War Hat" and a "Corinthian", too. But your brilliant idea in your own thread has answered my question on that regard anyway, so no big deal.

Follows some specific well known types of armor not previously set down.

Roman Legionaire's Armor
Banded Plate cuirass + greaves: the equivalent of a "half suit".
"Lorica Segmenta": 350 sp, DR 9, CV 4, ACP -3, Max Dex +4, HP 20, Wt. 23 lbs., Light Armor
Usually comes with an open, protective helmet and a large shield.

Greek Hoplite Armor
Bronze Solid Plate Cuirass + Greaves: The equivalent of a "half suit".
"Panoply": 600 sp, DR 8, CV 6, ACP -5, Max D +2, HP 20, Wt. 35 lbs., Heavy Armor.
Usually comes with a bronze helm, of which the classic example is the full-face "Corinthian", and a large, bronze-faced shield.

(Note the difference: Bronze is heavy and expensive. Steel, if you can work it well, is light and cheap. ish.)

Samurai O-yoroi
Heavy Lamellar Cuirass over mail shirt. Plate Pauldrons, vambraces, tassets and greaves.
O-Yoroi: 1500sp, DR 9, CV 9, Max D +1, ACP -8, HP 25, Wt. 60 pounds, Heavy Armor
Usually comes with a Protective helmet and facemask (the equivalent of a visored helmet).

Roman "Classical" Gladiatorial armor. (There were many types and styles, including nothing. This is the type that used to get pictured as meaning "Gladiator")
Bronze jointed plate full bracer for the weapon arm. Leather kilt. Bronze greaves.
Gladiator Armor: 100 sp, DR 7, CV 3, Max D NA, ACP NA, HP 20, Wt. 8 lbs, Light Armor
Usually comes with a bronze greathelm, and a shield of some sort.

HETP
 

S'mon

Mongoose
Your DRs seem on the high side, considering that Conan RPG gives 'plate armour' DR as 10, which that seems to be for something resembling 14th century plate mail - one could argue it's actually more like 15th century full plate, but that seems a little too advanced to me. Conan RPG Breastplate is DR6, I'd think Greek hoplite armour should be similar DR, with early-Roman chain shirt armour DR 5 as in RPG, and high-Roman lorica segmentata DR 6 I guess. That's not counting the helmet bonuses which I'd apply to shield DV not DR.

edit: I've never seen greaves worn with lorica segmentata, BTW. I've only seen greaves with late-Roman cavalry armour, worn by reenactors at museum, and they were extremely light greaves. I questioned their authenticity, the reenactors (paid museum staff) assured me they were an accurate representation of 4th century Roman cavalry armour.
 
S'mon said:
Your DRs seem on the high side, considering that Conan RPG gives 'plate armour' DR as 10, which that seems to be for something resembling 14th century plate mail - one could argue it's actually more like 15th century full plate, but that seems a little too advanced to me. Conan RPG Breastplate is DR6, I'd think Greek hoplite armour should be similar DR, with early-Roman chain shirt armour DR 5 as in RPG, and high-Roman lorica segmentata DR 6 I guess. That's not counting the helmet bonuses which I'd apply to shield DV not DR.

Conan Breastplate DR 6 is because of all the armor that isn't there on the arms and legs, theoretically: Plate DR is 10. Note that armor that isn't there in this system lowers CV, which is the number you have to roll above the other guy's DV to land a Finesse attack.

segmentata was supposed to be pretty good at keeping out swords, from what I've read, but it's still Jointed Plate. So not 10, but at least 8. So 9, unless you think that Plate Armor made by Romans wouldn't be DR 10, in which case lower it to one less, ya?

If you've got references that indicate that lorica were notably weak I'd appreciate a link, or a reference, but the only people I've ever heard that were notably good at cutting through roman armor were the "falx"-men of the Dacians, and a Falx ought to be at least as scary as a Bardiche, which will go through DR 9 just fine, so ....

edit: I've never seen greaves worn with lorica segmentata, BTW. I've only seen greaves with late-Roman cavalry armour, worn by reenactors at museum, and they were extremely light greaves. I questioned their authenticity, the reenactors (paid museum staff) assured me they were an accurate representation of 4th century Roman cavalry armour.

I've seen several refs to greaves worn by Legionairre front-rankers and officers an folks of that ilk.

If you take the greaves off, CV goes down to 3.5, but I'd seriously hesitate to rate any full torso armor at less than 4, which is what I've already got it set at, so ....
 

S'mon

Mongoose
OK, I understand - I do think lorica segmentata was pretty light and should probably be more than 1 DR less than medieval plate armour. Also I think the Conan RPG armour DRs are generally a bit too high, so I have a bias towards lower DRs. A straight translation from D&D of +1 AC = 1 DR would have worked fine I think, ie light padding DR 1, chain shirt DR 4, full plate DR 8, although it might have necessitated something like your CV rule for Finesse attacks.
 
Maybe. I do agree with you that some COnan OGL DRs seem to high as given. DR 4 for a leather Jerkin, for instance. Or DR 6 for a horse. (Now there's a question for the "rulemasters". Why is it that an elk's DR is 2, a regular horse's is 4, and a warhorse's DR is 6? What, when they give a horse it's wartraining they toughen its hide, too? Or are all warhorses in Conan given chainmail for skin or something? Bleah.)

The problem for assigning "realistic" DRs is maille. A mail hauberk is attested to be pretty much proof against an Arming Sword or Broadsword class weapon. This is, after all, why knights started to use thrusting swords, heavy swords and warhammers/maces in the first place.

Now, since an Arming Sword does 1d10 ... you see the problem.

So, if you compromise and say that maille (unreinforced) is 7 or 8, so 1d10 does no major damage, then you have to fit in A) light reinforcement over maille, b) heavy reinforcement over maille (like coat-of-plates), and full "solid" plate armor itself, at a bare minimum.

Which puts Plate armor at DR 10 or DR 11 ... which is where Mongoose has it, and where I left it. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it seems to work on paper anyway.

(Okay, if I really felt it was a problem, I might split DR into two values: one to resist damage, and one to resist AP. But I don't think most people would find it worth the fuss. (And neither would I, unless someone was being really annoying about it.))
 

S'mon

Mongoose
Re horses - I'm putting all horses DRs to 2, same as an elk. If you want more DR, get barding - the given DRs look ok for _barded_ horses.

Re armour penetration - avg dmg for an arming sword is 5.5. Minimum damage for a hit after DR is 1 pt. Therefore, if an arming sword hits a chain shirt wearer DR 5, you would have to roll 7+ to do more than this 'bruise' damage - and that roll of 7-10 probably represents a strike to an unguarded part of the body, anyway.
 

Johannixx

Mongoose
Regarding Lorica Segmenta:

I was fighting in a reenactment tourney last night, and one of the combats involved a man wearing Lorica Segmenta fighting against a man wearing a light brigandine. The brigandine man was using a short mace and shield, while the lorica man was wielding an arming sword and shield. The brigandine man made a low, upward-sweeping wrap shot on the lorica man, and hit the edge of one of the lames of his armor. This drove the edge of the lame upwards, concentrating the force of the blow on the edge of that single lame instead of dispersing it across multiple lames, and cracked the lorica guy's rib. While lorica is a good armor generally, in this specific instance, it was actually less protective than maille, and certainly less protective than plate. I think that is a good arguement for lowering the DR of flexible plate armor below solid plate, but above maille.
 
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