The virtues of Tinashi variants

[Alexb83]

Okay, I recall some time ago there was a Minbari tactica in S&P, but IIRC it lacked SFoS ships.

After yesterdays' fantastic performance by Ashinatas and Tinashis, I thought it was worth extolling their virtues, in comparison to the other (more frequently used) options.

Battle Level

Tinashi vs. Veshetan.
The same stealth, the same speed, but the Tinashi is more manouverable. It may be slightly less tough (in terms of damage track) and lacks the rear-facing beam of death. However it makes up for this in what I think is the most awesome property ever applied to the already sweet fusion cannon: Twin Linkedness.
An 18 inch AP gun is nice, but not great (it really isn't all that hot vs. the oh-so-common hull 6 opponent). But twin link it, and you'll pull out a decent no. of hits every turn. And oh, the Tinashi has lots of AD of TL minibeamy goodness to share in every arc.
Also, TwinLinked is as good as giving you a free CAF on the majority of your AD, in all arcs - this frees you up to attempt other SAs every round.

Shantavis - hrm... hull 5, stealth 4 ship... loses most of the virtues of the Tinashi, 3 of its arcs (1 random arc lost, you say? that ship can't fire) and gains a weapon you'll never want to be able to fire (a hull 5 stealth 4 ship within 8 inches of the baddies? no thanks!). I wouldn't bother.

 

[Alexb83]

Raid Level

The Esharan - meh. If it was 10 inch range on the AF guns, it would be fully worthwhile. However in gaining these it loses the twinlinked ability on its minibeams. It benefits from a battle level hull at raid level - but its armament is lackluster. Few opponents are going to try and swarm you with fighters in any game, and this ship will do little more to dissuade them.

The Tigara - an essential ship in any scenario where you get the chance to jump point bomb. A bit weak in terms of hull (compared to Tinashi variants) but the armament is so, so nasty. Combine 2 of these with 3 Ashinatas and I think you've got one of the more solid 5pt raid Minbari fleets.

The Ashinata - my new favourite Minbo ship. Fast, pretty rugged (for Minbari at Raid) and it has the most effective armament of any Minbari raid ship (6 AD all round, twin linked?). Free CAF in every arc, the same armament in every arc (so you dont have to worry about losing effectiveness) and unlike the Teshlan, it can afford to lose a few AD to crits.

 

[Alexb83]

The Teshlan - you take a Tigara, and try and give it a long range bias with a measy 2AD, 20 inch beam. I don't think it's worth it unless you take them in 3+ groups. At 20 inches you'll be outranged by your peers' beams and outgunned in AD. 2AD of SAP vs. your hull 6 opponents simply isn't that hot. Also, to fire your main gun you have to be within that magic 20 inch stealth bonus range. Also, the ship is often too fast for its own good.

The Leshath - as S&P pointed out, this is one of the best scouts out there. It could do with infinite range like the Delphi, as it wont stand up to much punishment. However, it has a nice armament which can fend off any smaller ships that chase after it.

Apologies for splitting posts, but I have the work firewall to contend with.

 

[Burger]

Shantavi is a great ship to drop in from hyperspace behind the enemy. But, fighters eat them alive!

 

[Alexb83]

It'd be good in that role, but a very expensive ship to use in that way. Like you say it's a prime target for fighter attacks (no rear or side weapons). It's also battle level, so a lot of points to risk.

I'd take two Tigaras for that trick, rather than one Shantavi - no beams, it's true, more AD of molecular disruptors, antimatter converters and more minibeams, plus 2 flights of fighters, and 2 jump point bombs for the price of one. Also, they can put out fire in 4 arcs rather than one. And you can have two coming through one JP, with a special action for the first ship through.

 

[Burger]

But triple damage beam is just so scary

 

[Alexb83]

It is scary - but the tradeoff you made to get it just seems far too big to me (speed, arcs, total AD). Perhaps if it had 6AD beams, or if the minibeams stayed at 8AD twinlinked as with the Tinashi.

 

[locarno24]

Personally I'd use it, if I was going to, in almost an omega-class-esque firing line... keep at long range and close slowly, with 2-3 of them.

2 of them do lack the magic 6+ stealth of a warcruiser at long range, but the amount of laser fire they can kick out can make even a primus class go "I'm sorry, you what!"

 

[philogara_mk2]

2 of them do lack the magic 6+ stealth of a warcruiser at long range, but the amount of laser fire they can kick out can make even a primus class go "I'm sorry, you what!"

We had some of that yesterday as well

 

[Alexb83]

War Level

Sharlin
Arguably the best war level Minbo ship, and probably one of the best war level ships in any fleet. Nice damage, good speed, the best stealth, free fighters galore and great armament.

Neshetan
The only thing to recommmend this over the Sharlin is hull 6. And to get that, you lose your fighters, a bit of damage and crew, stealth & a pretty large chunk of fusion cannon AD (seriously, sometimes I wonder how Mongoose worked out the give/take in terms of simple swaps - the Neshetan is a clear loser to the Sharlin here).

Sharoos
Again, you lose lots here for minimal gain. 2 AD of beams is nice for the side arcs, but you gain it at the cost of 2AD of minibeams in every arc, you lose 2 of the Sharlin's 6 beam AD in the front arc, and you lose 4 flights of Nials that a Sharlin would give you. -2AD's worth of weapons crits will hurt you (as Phil experienced this last weekend) but on the other hand, losing your foreward weapon arc wouldn't hurt a Sharoos as much as it would a Sharlin.

Sharkaan
Slightly better off than the Sharoos in the fighter department, what you've lost is: 2 AD of beams in the front and 4 AD of minibeams in your side and arcs, 2 at the rear. What you've gained? 6 inches more range with your main guns, and triple damage... there are situations where I can see this working out as a good swap, but I daresay the Sharlin is still best overall. (being able to trade fire with a Kaliva would be good)

 

[katadder]

try fighting narn or anyone that gets bonuses to see through stealth and you then see where the neshatan comes out on top of a sharlin. versus narn no fighters to lose and hull 6 against e-mines. versus drakh/shadows/vorlons again the hull 6 is a bonus as hull 5 ships die too easily.

 

[Alexb83]

Hull 6 is nice in some situations - I think my point was that you have to sacrifice a great deal to get it. Too much, IMO - a couple of Tinashis would do you better. They'd certainly damage hull 6 more reliably than a Neshatan would (16 AD of TL minibeams in the forward arc between them).

 

[Ripple]

Did we ever get an answer on whether those -1 AD crits stack? Otherwise I see a role for this ship in larger conflicts, or scenarios where you opponent gets to start behind/to the sides of you. I was surprised at the number of scenarios you need to be able to fire to the sides/rear right away. One of the big reasons I went away from Drazi for campaign ships.

Ripple

 

[Alexb83]

Even if the weapon crits dont stack (and I've been playing under the assumption that they do, since Matt said so at MoW?), A sharlin has a much more robust side armament (8 AD of minibeams) compared to the Sharoos - even only losing 1AD, the Sharlin will be putting out 7AD in the side arcs, whilst the Sharoos could only put out 1 beam and 3 minibeam...

I wont deny that the ability to shoot out to 30 inches on the side arcs is nice, but I can't see many situations on a board where the enemy is going to get the chance to flank you outside 18 inches.

 

[Silvereye]

The Sharoos is almost one of those ships you want to use in an ambush, because you know the enemy will be in an arc or two to chew on some Neutron Lasers. Thats if you get chance to fire....