The Olde crew score

[Target]

I know this has been brought up before quite some time ago but wouldn't the game be quicker without it.
Just having one score with 2 thresholds would be easier eg a Primus would be 45/14/7 meaning Crippled effects take effect at 14 and Skeleton crewed at 7.
It just seemed a lot hassle doing both when one score would do.
It would mean altering the crit chart a bit but would make big games easier & quicker to play.

 

[emperorpenguin]

I agree, I was all in favour of removing the crew score but most people like it

there's no accounting for taste.... :wink:

 

[Greg Smith]

It differentiates ACTA from other ship games. It is also a mechanic that is used in boarding actions, ramming, and capturing ships.

 

[Target]

It differentiates ACTA from other ship games. It is also a mechanic that is used in boarding actions, ramming, and capturing ships.

They can still ram with 1 score, boarding actions don't happen that often so the mechanic for that is easily changed. Might make the troops score more important.
I thought it was the simple system that was the main reason that people like this game, would be even more simplier. It is real hassle having 2 different damage score espicially with DD,TD weapons. The bigger games are a mare. It's real easy to make stuff ups.

 

[Kadorak]

There's such a thing as being too simple, IMO ACTA is already close to the line. It's true crew scores double the record keeping and mechanical portion of complexity without adding that much depth, so maybe they could be replaced by something else. But please...no simpler =/ Just make a cut-off between basic and advanced level rules; then people wanting a simpler system can play with basic level rules, while others can add in a higher levels of rules. I think there already is such a division in the manual, though it's not mentioned much. If players want more simplicity, IMO making advanced rules optional is the way to do it, not whittling down at the whole game system and removing anything interesting piece by piece in the name of simplicity.

Edit: To clarify, there is a difference between 'faster playing' and 'simple'. What I was getting at with the mechanical part was that I am strongly tempted by the thought of removing crew scores if it would make the game substantially faster - but not just to make it simpler. If crew is removed there should be some other possible damage effect ships can get, or things to happen, but maybe something that doesn't require constant marking with each and every hit.

 

[Apachex]

The original Classic Battletech Rules suggested ignoring internal structure points and just using the armor value for beginner and some large games.

I've used this for large ACTA games: Just use the damage score and ignore Crew points. On a crit that does crew dam, apply it to the dam score. On a crit that does both, apply the greater of the two. It really speeds up the large games.

 

[Target]

Edit: To clarify, there is a difference between 'faster playing' and 'simple'. What I was getting at with the mechanical part was that I am strongly tempted by the thought of removing crew scores if it would make the game substantially faster - but not just to make it simpler. If crew is removed there should be some other possible damage effect ships can get, or things to happen, but maybe something that doesn't require constant marking with each and every hit.

Presuming you are meaning the critical effects.
Certain hits could hit your troops, make ship behave like it's crippled for a turn (roll for traits that offline), thursters hit can't turn a certain direction, comms hit ship moves before all others ( before normal moving starts ), random trait damaged, Jump engines hit ( dangerous to use). These are things that spring to mind instead of taking crew damage on the crit chart.

 

[E Nicely]

The crew score needs to stay. Its an effective way to resolve special actions, some crews are better than others. The game plays quick anyway, doesn't need to be speeded up.

 

[Locutus9956]

Im actually in two minds about this one, on the one hand crew does have a BIG effect on the game for things like whitestars and chronos that are very tough but have small crew scores.

On the other hand I think it might be better to incorporate crew into the ships's regular damage tracks a la full thrust tbh (full thrust does it by having every x points of damage = crew casualties which affects how many boarding parties, damage control teams etc you have).

That said I dont want ACTA to be just a copy of another game (even though I do think full thrust is a better system).

 

[captainsmirk]

I always thought that ships suffer too much crew damage in ACTA, whilst when you get hit your always going to suffer some damage to the ships hull, but not always suffer crew losses. Take the Omega, most of the crew are in the rotating section yet there are large areas of the ship which can still be hit and damaged in which there are no crew at all, yet the ship still suffers crew damage...

Plus you would have thought the crew is one part of your ship you'd attempt to protect, particularly in a vacuum...


Nick

 

[Locutus9956]

Thats not how we do things in Earthforce!

"Sir we've got a hull breach on deck 6"

"You know the drill Leuitenant!"

"Yes Sir! Damage control teams! Stick your arses in the hull breach immediately until the leak is sealed!"

"But sir, won't we die?"

"Suck it up soldier, your in the Army now!"

 

[Reaverman]

Oh look, someone has resurected yet another argument about crew scores.

If ships dont have crew scores, how do you differentiate them from ancients? Or, how do you explain Whitestars, who are weak crew wise, remove the crew score, you will uber the Whitestar fleets!

 

[philogara_mk2]

Oh look, someone has resurected yet another argument about crew scores.

If ships dont have crew scores, how do you differentiate them from ancients? Or, how do you explain Whitestars, who are weak crew wise, remove the crew score, you will uber the Whitestar fleets!

- Reduce the WS damage score?
- Ancients still wouldn't suffer from crippled effects (thinking of the 2 threshold suggestion above) and cannot be boarded.

Personally I don't think crew adds much as the system stands.

 

[Triggy]

Oh look, someone has resurected yet another argument about crew scores.

If ships dont have crew scores, how do you differentiate them from ancients? Or, how do you explain Whitestars, who are weak crew wise, remove the crew score, you will uber the Whitestar fleets!

- Reduce the WS damage score?
- Ancients still wouldn't suffer from crippled effects (thinking of the 2 threshold suggestion above) and cannot be boarded.

Personally I don't think crew adds much as the system stands.

Actually I think it adds a huge amount, particularly to certain races like ISA where keeping White Stars alive long enough to make full use of their Crew score (whilst Damage is repairing) is a key gameplay factor. Not to mention boarding actions and sheer luck on which type of criticals you get.

 

[Locutus9956]

Well from the standpoint of ancients I REALLY dont think it makes a difference most ships in the game die from damage long before they run out of crew anyway barring freak crits so Ancients are at no less of an advantage than they were before in all honesty if you drop crew.

Rather my point was not that you will Uber the WS fleet, of course you can lower the damage score to compensate but the point is that having crew gives you a way to make a ship vulnerable in a different way from another ship that is simply more fragile.

As I said Im not overly bothered one way or another. I quite like the crew mechanism as it is but I would also be quite happy with a more streamlined system where you only had to mark one damage track (and the example someone gave of using Battletech with just armour is quite a good one)

 

[Reaverman]

Oh look, someone has resurected yet another argument about crew scores.

If ships dont have crew scores, how do you differentiate them from ancients? Or, how do you explain Whitestars, who are weak crew wise, remove the crew score, you will uber the Whitestar fleets!

- Reduce the WS damage score?
- Ancients still wouldn't suffer from crippled effects (thinking of the 2 threshold suggestion above) and cannot be boarded.

Personally I don't think crew adds much as the system stands.

Actually I think it adds a huge amount, particularly to certain races like ISA where keeping White Stars alive long enough to make full use of their Crew score (whilst Damage is repairing) is a key gameplay factor. Not to mention boarding actions and sheer luck on which type of criticals you get.

Agreed

 

[Target]

Whitestar only get 1 pt per round. It's not that awesome. Is there whitstars running around on full hits but no crew I wouldn't believe it's common place or anything like that.
If there is no crew score the only thing that will hit will be the hull in crits not split between the 2. Now if the crit chart had no turn in certain direction, the would effect the whitestar a lot. Having no crew opens the crit chart up for some more interesting type of crits.
Having the crew score is like saying the whitestar has 12 hits or Chronos 18 & Haven 6 since there is now way to protect crew.
Boarding actions would pretty much work the same way. Why reduce the crew to zero to take over the ship. There is the option of no troops mean you are captured or you when the reduce the ship to the skeleton crew threshold doing dam a similar way. How many ships get boarded, it's usually easier to shoot them so they don't shoot back or you aren't close enough or they aren't speed 0 ( crit or all stop)
Ancients still self repair, have no thresholds, can't be boarded, crits don't effect them as much so there still a lot of difference.

 

[Reaverman]

Whitestar only get 1 pt per round. It's not that awesome. Is there whitstars running around on full hits but no crew I wouldn't believe it's common place or anything like that.
If there is no crew score the only thing that will hit will be the hull in crits not split between the 2. Now if the crit chart had no turn in certain direction, the would effect the whitestar a lot. Having no crew opens the crit chart up for some more interesting type of crits.
Having the crew score is like saying the whitestar has 12 hits or Chronos 18 & Haven 6 since there is now way to protect crew.
Boarding actions would pretty much work the same way. Why reduce the crew to zero to take over the ship. There is the option of no troops mean you are captured or you when the reduce the ship to the skeleton crew threshold doing dam a similar way. How many ships get boarded, it's usually easier to shoot them so they don't shoot back or you aren't close enough or they aren't speed 0 ( crit or all stop)
Ancients still self repair, have no thresholds, can't be boarded, crits don't effect them as much so there still a lot of difference.

From previous conversations with Matt at tourneys, he seemed inclined to stay with the Dam/Crew system. So I think no end of lobbying, is going to sway the opinion. Especially, since it going to require restructuring various fleets, and rules.

 

[Greg Smith]

It was considered very, very early in the process for 2nd edition, but was discarded as most (if not all) of the playtesters were against it.

 

[Burger]

How about converting to D10? There haven't been any threads on that for a while :lol: