The Need for Errata

[Cavalier3025]

Who else thinks there is still a need for a comprohensive errata? The FAQ did come close to answering all the questions that are out there. In fact there may well be need for errata for the FAQ and certainly clarification for some of the things answered.

First off just to address the FAQ.

The answer on the Prestidigitation question. The questioners point was that it is impossible to have the required cross class ranks in sleight of hand at the level that the Acolytes are granted access to that spell style. The person answering did nothing but repeat the questioners own points and didn't look at the issue at all.

What really should have been asked is one of the BIGGEST questions that still remains unanswered to this point. WHAT ARE THE CLASS SKILLS??? Which is the correct listing of class skills.. the class description TEXT or the SKILLS CHART?? There are several differences for several classes between these two sources of information. Personally my group has already decided that due to the requirement of sleight of hand and such on several spells and the fact that the chart shows that as a class skill for Sorcs.. that the chart may well be the more valid source then the class descriptions. Now I know before someone else points it out that it is possible to use bonus INT skill points to get the sleight of hand needed for prereqs.. but that isn't the point.

I personally want yet another MAJOR contradiction in the book OFFICIALLY resolved one way or the other. Is the skill chart or class text the proper source for class skill information?


The next issue is the answer on the Monster slayer and Power attack question. The final line of the FAQ answer reads "However your total damage bonus cannot exceed your total BAB." This seriously needs clarified. Are you saying that in reference soley to the monster slayer bonus points or to Powerattack as well? This has huge impact for the big beefy warrior types out there swinging away with two hander weapons. I am going to leave monster slayer out of my examples here to hopefully simplify the question I am asking. A 2 handed weapon user with 10 BAB can drop 5 pts of BAB and get a 10 pts damage bonus. But your saying that a 2 handed weapon user could not drop all 10 BAB and gain a 20 damage boost? This differs from 3.5 so that is why this point needs clearing up.

My last issue with the FAQ is perhaps less a clarity issue as the answer is quite clear. It is more an observation of what I feel is simply a very bad choice of rulings.

I was rather suprised at the ruling on the Initiative modifer. Why on earth include Dex bonus twice? If people want really high init modifiers the feats and such exist to grant them that. In Fact this sorta hurts people who do get the feat because a higher dex person can still easily have a higher init bonus then them. It weakens the feat and makes it less useful. Including the BASE reflex save to init calculation is already a really grand thing for classes who get decent reflex saves why make it any more absurd?

There are tons of other questions that others have posted that still remain to be answered. I hope someone with a bit more time then I can recompile the list so that maybe a more comprohensive errata can be published by Mongoose.

-Rob

 

[Plane Sailing]

I don't understand what the beef is with prestidigitation... I don't even have the rulebook yet, but from excerpts and conversations here it seems that characters get skill points from two sources each level.

1) skill points from their class. This can be spent on their class skills

2) skill points from their INT. These can be spent on *any skill as if a class skill*

Now if this understanding is correct, where is the problem for the Scholars? They are going to have skill points from a high INT (unless they are really rubbish as their job!) and these skill points can be used to pick up Sleight of Hand.

Right or wrong?

Cheers

 

[sanseveria]

Plane, your right, and as such it's not a big deal. However, the point to the question is very simple, which is correct the text or the table?

 

[Rikki-Tikki-Tavi]

You have it right Plane Sailing. When using the bonus skill points derived from high INT, all skills are considered class skills.

I have seen an answer that Scholars do not get the Slight of Hand as a class skill. They don't need it. Use you bonus skill points to max out the skill. It's that simple.

 

[tekatana]

everyone gets the 4 * INT bonus in points per level or just at level 1?

 

[Mayhem]

INT MOD x 4 at L1, then INT MOD only at all subsequent levels

 

[Cavalier3025]

Theres actualy two points for my bringing back up the question on Prestidigitation.

#1 The ridiculous fact that a question was responded to in a published FAQ that did nothing to answer the question other then restate the points the question already contained. The answer didn't even bother to mention the fact you could use your bonus INT points to qualify.

#2 The very very big deal that there is a discrepency on listed class skills between the class description text and the class skill chart. And I am not taking the off hand reference in the answer to this question as proof positive that sleight of hand is indeed meant to be cross class. Because I do not think the respondent fully thought out there answer.

Speaking of non thought out subject... This line of responses to my post given the material your responding to already contained the point you posted about.. I will repost it below.

Now I know before someone else points it out that it is possible to use bonus INT skill points to get the sleight of hand needed for prereqs.. but that isn't the point.

Thanks for reading that and responding anyway despite my indicating IT IS NOT THE POINT

-Rob

 

[Rikki-Tikki-Tavi]

Prestidigitation is correct. Those who wish to take Conjuring have to take cross-class skills in sleight of hand. Given the acolytes are being trained then they'd know to practice their fingerwork.

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1108

In essence, in Conan your class-derived skill points are restricted to your class skills. Skillpoints gained for a high intelligence can be spent on any skill without penalty (treating all skills as class skills for those points).

Hope that makes it clearer.

Ah! Cool. This takes care of the prestidigitation magic style's skill requirements.

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1196

 

[Plane Sailing]

Thanks for reading that and responding anyway despite my indicating IT IS NOT THE POINT

Apologies Rob, when reading your post I (obviously) didn't notice that sentence. I'd seen the question about sorcerers/sleight of hand a couple of times previously and was sorta checking out my understanding of the rules.

I agree fully with you that the FAQ doesn't actually answer the question in the obvious way.

It also seems clear that beyond the FAQ there does need to be a serious errata document to deal with all the descrepencies between tables and text or examples that have been mentioned in various places on this forum.

So no disrespect intended.

Cheers

 

[Anonymous]

O.K. as further clarification.

I read the rules with INT as follows: Bonus skill points dereived from INT can be spent on any skill as though it were a class skill. However, since it IS still a cross class skill the cross class skill maximum ranks must still be followed. In other words it would only cost a scholar 2 INT skill points to get 2 ranks of Sleight of Hand, but the cholar could not get 4 ranks of Sleight of Hand until 5th level. (cross class ranks max= (level+ 3)/2.

The rule says you spend the points as class skills, without the 2:1 penalty, not that the skill becomes a class skill.

 

[slaughterj]

O.K. as further clarification.

I read the rules with INT as follows: Bonus skill points dereived from INT can be spent on any skill as though it were a class skill. However, since it IS still a cross class skill the cross class skill maximum ranks must still be followed. In other words it would only cost a scholar 2 INT skill points to get 2 ranks of Sleight of Hand, but the cholar could not get 4 ranks of Sleight of Hand until 5th level. (cross class ranks max= (level+ 3)/2.

The rule says you spend the points as class skills, without the 2:1 penalty, not that the skill becomes a class skill.

Interesting, and a good point if correct. I don't have the book handy, anyone else able to take a close read on this? I think I'll stick with the same max - I never have PCs buy cross-class skills anyway, so it's easier for me if INT points on outside skills would have the same max as class skills...

 

[Yuan-Ti]

O.K. as further clarification.

I read the rules with INT as follows: Bonus skill points dereived from INT can be spent on any skill as though it were a class skill. However, since it IS still a cross class skill the cross class skill maximum ranks must still be followed. In other words it would only cost a scholar 2 INT skill points to get 2 ranks of Sleight of Hand, but the cholar could not get 4 ranks of Sleight of Hand until 5th level. (cross class ranks max= (level+ 3)/2.

The rule says you spend the points as class skills, without the 2:1 penalty, not that the skill becomes a class skill.

Interesting, and a good point if correct. I don't have the book handy, anyone else able to take a close read on this? I think I'll stick with the same max - I never have PCs buy cross-class skills anyway, so it's easier for me if INT points on outside skills would have the same max as class skills...

The rule is very messy. "Bonus skill points from a high Intelligence may be spent on any skill without penalty. In effect, all skills are treated as class skills for the various skill points gained through having a high Intelligence."

For my own purposes, I forgot to tell my players this when they made their characters. I will let them know this now, but I will still restrict Cross-Class skills maximum to 0.5(Level + 3), rounded down.

 

[Johannixx]

I simply allow bonus points from Intelligence to be spent as if they were class skills, i.e. full max skill points. With this arrangement, nobody spends points cross-class anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

Oh, I was trying to ask for clarification based upon how I read the rules. Since I"m too lazy to actually register :shock: , I can't go back and fix typos and the first sentence which should read:

O.K., need some further clarification here:

Then the rest of the post.Hope that helps, but yes it is a messy rule.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

Edit: Nevermind, I get it.

 

[Leofwyn]

I have seen the FAQ and my reading is the same as Murte in that you can spend you INT bonus skills on a one for one basis on all skills just like class skills - but you are limited to the cross class and class skill max ranks or 4 and 2 respectively for first level characters.

If given the chance to actually run, I think I am going to house rule the skill chart as partially correct. Scholars who take Conjuring as their style of magic at first level get sleight of hand as a class skill.

It seems like a reasonable solution to me.

 

[slaughterj]

I simply allow bonus points from Intelligence to be spent as if they were class skills, i.e. full max skill points. With this arrangement, nobody spends points cross-class anyway.

So we do the same thing here, the same thing with Initiative (DEX bonus only once), hmmm, what's that phrase about great minds thinking alike?

 

[Cavalier3025]

O.K. as further clarification.

I read the rules with INT as follows: Bonus skill points dereived from INT can be spent on any skill as though it were a class skill. However, since it IS still a cross class skill the cross class skill maximum ranks must still be followed. In other words it would only cost a scholar 2 INT skill points to get 2 ranks of Sleight of Hand, but the cholar could not get 4 ranks of Sleight of Hand until 5th level. (cross class ranks max= (level+ 3)/2.

The rule says you spend the points as class skills, without the 2:1 penalty, not that the skill becomes a class skill.

That is another good issue for an official errata to clear up. After thinking about it I pretty much agree with you. At first thought I didn't think about it that way. Mind you I am not certain that is what the game designers intend. However I agree with no other info to go on there is nothing that specifically states that bonus INT SPs ignore cross class restrictions.

What I think could be a better and more clear way of handling this bonus is to have a player pick a number of skills equal to his INT bonus to become additional CLASS skills. It limits the freedom of where to spend those points a bit more then the old rule.. but it makes things more clear and easy to manage. Can you imagine trying to break down a players skill point distribution to see if they did the math right with the current rule system and the wild card INT points out there? ugh.. ! Anyway my suggestion here is purely an alternative rule idea not a suggestion that this is the designers intent.

This is a interesting ruling. It makes that old question about prestidigitation become VERY valid again. Unless Sleight of hand is indeed a CLASS skill then a scholar could not possibly qualify to have the spell at the level it is granted to him according to the acolyte chart. Which is just silly and not well thought out. This ironically is exactly what the original questioner ASKED about in the first place and was noticably not answered in a useful fashion.

-Rob

 

[Anonymous]

Well finally got home and able to pick up the book, In the example they give Conan getting 4 ranks in 3 skills for his 12 INT bonus skill points. Guess that clears it up...

 

[Iron_Chef]

This is a interesting ruling. It makes that old question about prestidigitation become VERY valid again. Unless Sleight of hand is indeed a CLASS skill then a scholar could not possibly qualify to have the spell at the level it is granted to him according to the acolyte chart. Which is just silly and not well thought out. This ironically is exactly what the original questioner ASKED about in the first place and was noticably not answered in a useful fashion.

-Rob

I was that original questioner and was not satisfied with the answer, although I was partly mollified by learning that one could spend their bonus Int skill points on any skill as a class skill (but limited to cross class max ranks), something I did not understand when I asked the question...