# The logic of logistics!

#### Archer

##### Banded Mongoose
Reading the entry of the Backpack and the Grappling Hook we get;

Backpack can contain 20 ENC.

Grappling Hook can sustain 50 ENC or 50 SIZ, or any combination thereof.

Ergo; 1 ENC = 1 SIZ. We can fit most adventurers into a backpack

I guess a table showing how much SIZ are in ENC, Kg, and Length would be a good idea...

Archer said:
Ergo; 1 ENC = 1 SIZ. We can fit most adventurers into a backpack

Well, if you get a nice big watertight backpack, and then liquidise the adventurer and pour them in...

mthomason said:
Well, if you get a nice big watertight backpack, and then liquidise the adventurer and pour them in...

Chopping one up into chunks should be good enough, and it's a far more common occurence, in my experience.

Simon Hibbs

More importantly, how many chopped up halflings would fit in a backpack? I believe everyone should commence practical experimentation as it is, after all, in the interests of science.

mthomason said:
More importantly, how many chopped up halflings would fit in a backpack? I believe everyone should commence practical experimentation as it is, after all, in the interests of science.

I remember from the old runequest rules that the concept of ENC was how many "Things" you could carry, with the idea that heavy things count as more than one "Thing".

Using this logic, a person who is carrying another person is so fully encumbered that there is not much else that he can carry and still move around. Thus, a person's ENC value would be approximately equal to his Size.

I think the problem is that backpacks should not be rated according to ENC, but according to size and weight. Can you really put 300 pounds of gold into a backpack and expect it not to fall apart if you pick it up? (Assuming you're strong enough to life 300 pounds, or get a crane.) Certainly it depends on how well the backpack is made.

Perhaps a good rule for backpacks is that a backpack counts as 1 ENC or an ENC equal to the SIZE equivalent of the weight contained in the backpack, whichever is higher. That way you can load a backpack up with wooden objects with no difficulty, but if you fill the thing with gold (or a chopped up adventurer), you'll be staggering around.

Note: chopped up adventurers weigh approximately 50 pounds per cubic foot, and Size must be logarithmic rather than linear, so you probably could not put an average size adventurer inside an average size backpack.

mthomason said:
More importantly, how many chopped up halflings would fit in a backpack? I believe everyone should commence practical experimentation as it is, after all, in the interests of science.

I think it may be.

I suggest we keep trying until we're sure.

Well RQ3 used to use a 1/6 SIZ per ENC rule, but noted than many items were given certain ENC ratings becaase of the size of the item.

THere is a chart in tehe companion, and is appears to be the same one from RQ3. I posted that here in one of the SIZ threads before, if anyone wants it.

Hehe, to this day I have not seen a realistic encumberance system for carrying and containing things. It is probably the hardest things to "simulate" in an RPG, and the one thing that actually is the least worth the effort.

I just found the logic provided by the two items funny....

As a GM I generally allow my PCs and NPCs carry what seems reasonable. Never caring about counting encumberance according to whatever system the game are using.

Archer said:
As a GM I generally allow my PCs and NPCs carry what seems reasonable. Never caring about counting encumberance according to whatever system the game are using.

I'm the same

"I really don't care *what* the tables in the rulebook tell you. *I'm* telling you that you cannot carry six different swords."

BEing dense here I know, but surely its a matter of density rather than space filled.

I can get 50 gold bars in the average adventurers back pack (volume us the limiter), but you'd struggle to lift it with 5 in (actual density/mass)!

Unless you could have the runic backpack!

Remeber the bags of infinite holding in D&D...boy the quantum issues they threw up!!!

CHRIS

mthomason said:
I'm the same

"I really don't care *what* the tables in the rulebook tell you. *I'm* telling you that you cannot carry six different swords."

When we were starting to play RPGs I had a player that was very argumentative. He would refuse me as a GM when I told him he could not carry 10.000 Gold Coins because of the weight. If I remember correctly 300 coins or so weighted in that system something like 30 Kg.
To end the argument which destroyed that session, we went down in the basement and started to load him up with some wieghts from my fathers exercise gear in a backpack. I do not remember how much he actually had in there, but it was enough for him to never argue against me when it came to carrying stuff in RPGs again.

Similar argument came up with a new group of players some years later, about how many weapons he could carry and run without a problem. We started loading him up with brooms, spades, etc. Until he agreed that it was impossible to run with that many long things carried, and not stumble and fall in the process.

Reminds me of some wargamers who come into the hobby via a certain ruleset. They're just not interested in strategy and tactics with the forces, they're interested in finding out which rules tactics work best

mthomason said:
"I really don't care *what* the tables in the rulebook tell you. *I'm* telling you that you cannot carry six different swords."
Clearly you're not a member of the golf pro school of RuneQuest. 1H sword-tick! 2H sword-tick! drop! 1H axe-tick! 2h axe-tick!

t-tauri said:
Clearly you're not a member of the golf pro school of RuneQuest. 1H sword-tick! 2H sword-tick! drop! 1H axe-tick! 2h axe-tick!

"We're facing a what?"
*grabs rulebook and calculator*
"I'll tell you which weapon I'm using in a minute..."
"lessee, got a better skill in this but their armour means 50% of my hits with this will not do enough damage, so what if I switch to that with a slightly lower skill but at least it does 1d8... now if I just carry the two..."

t-tauri said:
Clearly you're not a member of the golf pro school of RuneQuest. 1H sword-tick! 2H sword-tick! drop! 1H axe-tick! 2h axe-tick!

That reminds me of;

Golf club, the most lethal improvised hand to hand weapon in the swedish post-apocalyptic RPG Mutant, released cirka '86 (if my memory serves me correctly).

mthomason said:
Reminds me of some wargamers who come into the hobby via a certain ruleset. They're just not interested in strategy and tactics with the forces, they're interested in finding out which rules tactics work best

He, I have had bouts with RPGs like that too. Every character equipped the same, the same skills, the same spells. Then they "power up" before going into action.....

*Blech* No fun at all.

The World of Warcraft school of roleplaying.

mthomason said:
The World of Warcraft school of roleplaying.

*Huga* My current players are slaves to WoW. I hope they dont start taking principes of doing things from that into our regular pen-n-paper RPGing.

For those who never been in the service , or even on a long hike. its not only the weight but also how you distribute it. There a big difference between a good backpack and a cheap one. Carrying 50 lb in just a big bag would be harder then in a back pack or elsewise.And wearing 50 lb of armor whose weight is evenly distributed would be asier still(Unless it was hot then it could be worse). Greek Peltast used to carry a longspear, 6 javelins and a shortsword, and I think thats max anyone could really carry on foot and not trip over a sword.

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