The Best and Worst Skirmish level ships

Humbaba

Mongoose
If you have seen the discussion of the best and worst Patrol level ships, you will have an idea of what I am shooting for with my calculations, so without further ado, here are the best and the worst of the Skirmish level presented on their combat abilities without attempting to rate their corresponding tactical value.

The Best:
1- The Strikehawk – Drazi (total rating 43.4)
The Sky Serpent adds a significant punch, but is weak defensively which means that this ship is overrated by the system. It is too easy to knock out a significant amount of the punch without engaging the main defensive element.
2- The Ka’Tan – Narn (34.5)
Four dice of Double Damage, Armor Piercing Beam on a Skirmish ship with a free Frazi prize in every pack.
3- The Warbird – Pak’ma’ra (31.3)
Hull 6 and packs a mean punch.
4- The Milani – Abbai (30.4)
The 4 Kotha fighters it carries only add so much, but it does have a nasty Combat Laser and Interceptors 3.
5- The Ka’Toc – Narn (29.4)
This one is redundant (in my opinion) as it does the same thing as a Ka’Tan only not quite as well.

The Worst: (starting with the worst)
1- The White Star Fighter – ISA (0.9)
Attacks like a ship, but dies like a fighter, at only one per Skirmish point they are more then a bit disappointing.
2- The Darkhawk – Drazi (3.9)
Clearly the calculations don’t like the fragile, long-range missile boats and clearly they can be used effectively. Choose your fleet wisely!
3- The Light Raider – Drakh (5.5)
This one has a week overall attack, but it is the Drakh’s only anti-fighter ship, so it has its place in the universe.
4- The Xixx – Vree (6.1)
Yes, another fragile long range puncher. I once used a fleet of these to absolutely obliterate an opposing force, but they sure don’t hold up well if your enemy can catch up with them.
5- The Oracle Scout – Earthforce (7.4)
Hey, its not supposed to fight – it’s a scout.

As a special note to our Abbai friends out there, the Marata out defends the next best Skirmish level ship by almost 2 to 1, not a bad ship to park in front of a Jump Gate (if you happen to be in a skirmish level battle at a certain tournament at Kublacon this May).

Humbaba
 
The good ships seem almost right minus that Strikehawk.

It breaks down a lot the bad ones though. The Light Raider is definatley useful. The Xixx is the Vree missle boat right? That's a decent skirmish ship as well(Long range plus SM=Nasty). And while the Oracle is a subpar scout, it's still superior to a lot of other skirmish crap out there. Such as the Raider Strike Carrier. I'm sure it's better than one of the Centauri skirmish vessels as well(to be honest I tend to forget everything but the Maximus where Centauri skirmish is concerned since so much of it other than the Maximus is crap).
 
No mention of the Torotha? An atrocious ship! Even more paper-hulled than the rest of the fleet, only two fire arcs, short ranged weapons and low stealth.

Kiss your skirmish points goodbye...
 
Alexb83 said:
No mention of the Torotha? An atrocious ship! Even more paper-hulled than the rest of the fleet, only two fire arcs, short ranged weapons and low stealth.

Kiss your skirmish points goodbye...
Stealth 4 probably doubles its "survivability" in the points system. Of course we all know, 90% of people will be rolling stealth on "anything but a 1" against a Torotha...
 
TGT said:
can I take a mixed League and early EA fleet to a tourney...?
thanks
No. They are different fleet lists.
That's like asking, can I take a mixed Vorlon and Minbari fleet, or a mixed Centauri and Shadows!
 
Well as Ive said of the patrol version, I can appreciate what your trying to do but in all honesty the nature of how ships work in ACTA just isnt really suited to rating them mathematically, theres too many circumstantial factors to consider. Perhaps the biggest issue as well is that in ACTA ships effectiveness is often affected more by the composition of the REST of the fleet than the ship itself.

A signle Narn Ka'Tan for example is, whilst a decent ship not a major threat, but a pack of them on the other hand are DEADLY (doubly so due to boresighting...) Likewise, a single Sagittarius will just be blown to bits as the 'obvious target' but 10 of them (even with their reduced hull values) is still horrific! (I think theyre just about fair now but I still rate the Saggitarius as one of the best skirmish ships out there)

I would, wihtout mathamatical formulating rate the top 5 skirmish ships, and wosrt 5 as (in no particular order):

Best:

Narn Ka'Tan (cornerstone of the infamous 'Bat Squad'),

Pak'Ma'Ra Warbird (every bit as tough as the Drazi version but with potent long range torpedoes too),

Vree Xixx (may look fragile, but with vree manuevering rules it can stay out of arc/range of most things fairly easily while pooring fire back in),

EA Saggitarius (firepower supreme, especially in groups),

Centauri Maximus (again often overlooked, its VERY tough and and packs a hell of a 'big pile of dice' punch once it gets in close)


Worst:

Minbari Torotha (though I actually have a soft spot for them they DO suck)

EA Oracle (just not worth it even for the scout ability you sacrifice too much warship in my opinion)

Raiders Strike Carrier (Just a joke frankly. Dies to one volley from most ships and carries weapons that wouldnt scare most patrol ships and the few Delta V's it carries are just a light snack for most REAL fighters)

Whitestar Fighter (my longstanding hatred of the Whitestar X concept aside, its just NOT worth spending a whole patrol point for a single hit
point no matter HOW much firepower it has!)

Vree Vaarka (Not worth it. Sure its maneuverable but it has to get too close to attafk and most ships have SOMETHING that can fire in most arcs so chances are it wont survive. And doesnt pack much firepower in any case)
 
I would agree with most of Locutus choices although I am tempted to include the Artemis - it's an excellent Skirmish ship, esp. against those races/ships without interceptors.

Btw - personally I think you can "model" ships - (after all governments and corporations do it for far, far more complex systems than ACTA! - check out Operational Research in Google). Like any model however they can only represent part of the story and must be complemented and validated against subject matter expert analysis (which in this case would be people who play the game, a lot!) and also historical/empirical evidence (i.e. against occurrences during play).
 
Hash said:
I would agree with most of Locutus choices although I am tempted to include the Artemis - it's an excellent Skirmish ship, esp. against those races/ships without interceptors.

Btw - personally I think you can "model" ships - (after all governments and corporations do it for far, far more complex systems than ACTA! - check out Operational Research in Google). Like any model however they can only represent part of the story and must be complemented and validated against subject matter expert analysis (which in this case would be people who play the game, a lot!) and also historical/empirical evidence (i.e. against occurrences during play).


I am kind of suprised that you include the Artemis Hash. It is really outclassed by 2 other ships for EA at the same level

1st - at early era - Rail Hyperion Same Hull, same interceptors, but 2 less speed for the Hyp. But the Hyp come with 10 more damage and crew, gains a Starfury. They hyp has a little less firepower in it's railguns, but has stronger side firepower and a turreted AF gun

2nd - The Olympus. Has 1 less hull, but 10 extra damage and crew. Can use CBD to mitigate damage on it's closing turn. Has a 2 AD missle that it can fire with CBD. Turreted Railgun and 6 AD of Twinlinked forward, Port, and Starboard. This ship has a suprisingly large amount of firepower, and is suprisingly resilient.


Dave
 
Based on the discussions so far I think I will probably do a set of calculations adding fudge factors for range and speed/maneuverability, even though it cuts against the “pure” math approach (clearly math can only get you so far). So far the biggest complaints have been in favor of the long range, low defense, strike craft, which is, in my opinion a very valid critique.

Locutus – Why the Sagittarius over the Olympus? The Olympus packs more then twice the long-range punch while sacrificing 1/3 of the defensive power. Also in comparing it to the Xixx I wonder if the super maneuverable trait really doubles its effective defense compared to the Olympus. I have never used an Olympus myself (where the Xixx is truly deadly) so I wonder if I am missing something. Also, would you really take the Maximus over the Pak’ma’ra Ikorta? The Maximus is a little tougher, but the Ikorta packs half again the punch.
 
Humbaba said:
Based on the discussions so far I think I will probably do a set of calculations adding fudge factors for range and speed/maneuverability, even though it cuts against the “pure” math approach (clearly math can only get you so far). So far the biggest complaints have been in favor of the long range, low defense, strike craft, which is, in my opinion a very valid critique.

Locutus – Why the Sagittarius over the Olympus? The Olympus packs more then twice the long-range punch while sacrificing 1/3 of the defensive power. Also in comparing it to the Xixx I wonder if the super maneuverable trait really doubles its effective defense compared to the Olympus. I have never used an Olympus myself (where the Xixx is truly deadly) so I wonder if I am missing something. Also, would you really take the Maximus over the Pak’ma’ra Ikorta? The Maximus is a little tougher, but the Ikorta packs half again the punch.


Actually , the Sag has significantly more long range firepower than the Olympus. 2 AD forward, 6 AD to either side, and 2 AD Aft of AP. DD. Precise death at range 30(assuming flash missles. The guns aren't that hard to bring to bear.

As far as the Ikorta(Pak) vs Maximus debate, the Ikorta will have a hard time hitting the Maximus due to the Maximus' hull 6 and interceptor since it's weapon is only AP. Likewise the Ikorta will be tough to damage due to the redundency, hull 5, and interceptor. pretty much a wash in the head to head battle.

Dave
 
Where's the Kutai on the list of worst skirmish ships? Inferior weapons, low hull, low damage and crew and not enough dodge to make up for it. A sick joke that nobody's laughing at...
 
I think the math just isn't working quite right. The Drahk Light Raider is incredibly tough. The movement/turning capacity of the ship is its greatest defense and is not really part of the calculation. By this math, should he do raid, you'll see the whitestar showing up in the worst category.

He also underrates precise in my opinion as he is not factoring in the likely results of ship ending crits, only the raw damage numbers. Again that drahk light raider looks weak until it shuts the weapons down on your bin'tak, or parks it in a bad spot, or removes a weapon arc or two, etc. Taking the 'effects' part of crits out of the calculation really limits the value of the discussion.

Ripple
 
Honestly, LDD is right. The Kutai is one of the worst hulls out there, period. A stablemate is the lacking Morgrath, and the Vorchan should be getting a few worst-of votes, too. I'd also consider nominating the pitifully underhulled Xorr -- but it isn't as bad as the lamentable Torotha, WSF (as independent choice) or some of the other entries.

As far as the Drakh Raider goes --- well, eh. If you had just Light Raiders, yeah, it'd be one of the worst ships in the game. I have no idea how you kill much of anything with this thing, and any fighter-heavy environment is white death to individual Raiders in general. But what it does do is take a brutal beating instead of (hopefully!) your Heavy Raiders. It makes sense, but only in a certain context, as Ripple points out. I still think its a bit undergunned. But it is also overprotected vs. everything except fighters.

The new Brakiri Brikorta is mean as all hell, and might be nastier than the Milani. But not good enough to crack either of these high-point lists. Same could be said of the solid Omelos.
 
I forgot about the grand winner of pointless Skirmish ships:

the Amar!

Silly me. I keep even forgetting that it exists. There's a reason I do that.
 
It's pretty hard for the Vorchan to make the bottom 5 when there is the
Kutai & Amar.
The Vorchans speed keeps her out of the bottom 5.
Yes the Amar, i just don't get that ship at all, maybe with 4 flights i'd call it a light carrier ( probably still never take it cause the sentri is shit) but 2 & crap all firepower. What a complete waste.
Just looking at all the other races skirmish ships there is a few i might consider but not knowing hoe they play clouds my judgement but it actually looks like the Centauri hold the title of worse skirmish ships easily.
 
The reason the Vorchan isn't a bottom five ship is that there's so many worse choices than it. Sure it's bad. But there's worse. :lol:
 
Locutus - My mistake on the Sag vs. the Olympus, I had switched the two in my memory banks.

Also, Celisasu is correct - there are many bad centauri Skirmishers available, but they do have to battle for the bottem with all the other races combined to get one of the bottom five spots.

As for the Drakh, see Verdantgreen's excellent Drakh tactics post to see how to get the most out of your light raiders!
 
The trick to the Light Raider is that it's a specialist ship. You need it for specific situations but otherwise you're going to use the Heavy Raider.
 
OK folks, sorry this took such a long time. I'm actually with Humbaba on most of the ships with only a slight difference in the absolute best and worst.

Skirmish PL ships (2.000 = approximate value for average Skirmish PL ship)

White Star Fighter (ISA) 0.6097
Darkhawk (Drazi) 0.7636
Kutai (Centauri) 1.0793
Xixx (Vree) 1.2070
Drakh Light Raider (Drakh) 1.2154
Morgrath (Centauri) 1.2314
Strike Carrier (Raiders) 1.2688
Jumphawk (Drazi) 1.2614
Torotha (Minbari) 1.3039
Amar (Centauri) 1.3323
Oracle (EA) 1.3552
Artemis Escort (EA) 1.3884
Vorchan (Centauri) 1.4139
Vorchar (Centauri) 1.4201
Xorr (Vree) 1.4249
G’Karith (Narn) 1.4424
Sho’Kar (Narn) 1.5211
T’Rakk (Narn) 1.5359
Drakh Heavy Raider (Drakh) 1.5645
Shakara (Brakiri) 1.5733
Darkner (Centauri) 1.6106
Maximus (Centauri) 1.6220
Vorchat (Centauri) 1.6865
G’Sten (Narn) 1.7560
Artemis (EA) 1.8218
Ikorta (Brakiri) 1.8292
Ochlavita (Dilgar) 1.8340
Sagittarius (EA) 1.8408
Thentus (Narn) 1.8422
Warbird (Pak’ma’ra) 1.8839
Warbird (Drazi) 1.8851
Ikorta (Pak’ma’ra) 1.9392
Brikorta (Brakiri) 1.9526
Vaarka (Vree) 2.0083
Ka’Toc (Narn) 2.0471
Omelos (Dilgar) 2.0598
Hyperion Assault (EA) 2.0637
Strikehawk (Drazi) 2.0793
Hyperion Rail (EA) 2.1211
Hyperion Missile (EA) 2.1543
Ka’Tan 2.2386
Olympus (EA) 2.3078
Nolo’Tar (ISA) 2.3234
Marata (Abbai) 2.4223
Milani (Abbai) 3.4988

The only ones I'm slightly skeptical about are the Hyperion variants but that may be because in a mixed fleet they are less good but in a dedicated fleet, their huge amount of toughness really tells.

Edit - Added the Shakara and Nolo'Tar
 
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