Streetwise Barbarians

Delerium

Mongoose
Service skill for a barbarian living on an undeveloped backword world with no urban development:

Streetwise.


gaffaw
 
My take though is that Barbarian means low tech in the Traveller universe, at least the OTU. So people from a low tech but urban (from their standpoint anyway) enviroment would still qualify as "barbarians". To give an example, a pickpocket from let's say Paris (picking a city at random, first one that hit my head) circa AD 1500 would be a "Barbarian" in OTU terms even if Paris was a large city by at least European terms even in 1500. And said pickpocket could very well have a point or more of streetwise.

Having said that I'd have to look again at the drifter subclass of Barbarian to see how they define it, and I don't have my book in front of me. But again it's how I think it is defined.
 
Yep, just think of "The Thief of Bagdad", the classical Athens or Rome,
or medieval Chinese cities or Japanese courts. Lots of opportunities to
learn and use Streetwise in low tech fiction and history.
 
Good points, but all of those societies are not primitive, just low-tech, no?

Primitive is surely derived from meaning beginning or orgins, not a relative term, I would of thought.

Hmm...I wouldn't say ancient Rome or China was primitive, not even relatively speaking. Would you? What ya think?

They have cities. Cities with streets. Streets to be wise about. ;p


But even if we suppose all that, why is it a Service skill? ALL barbarians have Streetwise 0, that is my point.

:?
 
Delerium said:
But even if we suppose all that, why is it a Service skill? ALL barbarians have Streetwise 0, that is my point.

:?

No reliance on technology, able to read people better?
 
Delerium said:
But even if we suppose all that, why is it a Service skill? ALL barbarians have Streetwise 0, that is my point.

Not quite all, and I'm only being picky to illustrate a point I missed in early chargen.

Only Barbarians whose first (18-22) term is Drifter-Barbarian will automatically have Streetwise. People who, erm, drift in later can choose it, but might pick one of the other 5.

It does seem a little hinky, though. Conan only got streetwise after spending years in the civilised fleshpots of the south. His early career was notable for *failures* of streetwiseness. Barbarian does imply lo-tech small community or wanderer, though I suppose there's a niche for the techno- or urban-nomad in OTU.
 
Delerium said:
Good points, but all of those societies are not primitive, just low-tech, no?

Primitive is surely derived from meaning beginning or orgins, not a relative term, I would of thought.

Hmm...I wouldn't say ancient Rome or China was primitive, not even relatively speaking. Would you? What ya think?

They have cities. Cities with streets. Streets to be wise about. ;p

:?

You're still confusing the traditional definiton of "Barbarian" with how the game means the term. The GAME simply means "low tech". That is why I gave an example of late Middle Ages Paris and the other poster his examples. They are ones that the GAME use for "Barbarian".

As an aside with all due your respect your "guffaw" is a weak one anyway. I did just pop open my book to look up something else. The service skills table is shared by all three subclasses of Drifter, which are the Barbarian, Wanderer and Drifter. Out of those three, only one is from a low tech society to start with. Add to that is the fact that Drifter is one of the classes that have people pick their basic training skills from their subclass instead of their service table, so a Barbarian doesn't start with Streetwise 0 anyway, he has to roll for Streetwise to even get the skill. And to do so, he has to deliberatly pick the Service table, and even then only has a one in six chance of hitting it. So, the chance a Barbarian has streetwise, even if he's truly going out of his way to get it is fairly slim.
 
Shiloh said:
Delerium said:
But even if we suppose all that, why is it a Service skill? ALL barbarians have Streetwise 0, that is my point.

Not quite all, and I'm only being picky to illustrate a point I missed in early chargen.

Only Barbarians whose first (18-22) term is Drifter-Barbarian will automatically have Streetwise. People who, erm, drift in later can choose it, but might pick one of the other 5.

It does seem a little hinky, though. Conan only got streetwise after spending years in the civilised fleshpots of the south. His early career was notable for *failures* of streetwiseness. Barbarian does imply lo-tech small community or wanderer, though I suppose there's a niche for the techno- or urban-nomad in OTU.

Sorry to do two posts in a row, but as I just pointed out Drifter is one of the classes that's an exception, there is a blurb that states one uses the specalist class to gain one's basic training skills as a drifter instead of the service skill table. And I'd take techno or urban nomad to be the wanderer subclass, not the barbarian subclass.
 
Yep you are right there. I just found the little side note that said Drifters dont get basic training from service skills like other classes.
Good, thats cleared that up then. Thought it was odd.

I still think streetwise shoudn't be on Service skills though, as it really fits in nicely with the other 2 subclasses that use it, but not so well I think with barbarians.
 
Delerium said:
Good points, but all of those societies are not primitive, just low-tech, no?
I only have the German version of the rulebook here, and according to
it a Barbarian lives without the advantages of technology on a primitive
world - not exactly a helpful definition, it seems.

Originally the term "barbarian" was coined by the ancient Greeks, and
it was used for all people from other cultures who used foreign langua-
ges. To the Greeks the Romans were "barbarians".

In the early Middle Ages the Vikings were considered barbarians, despite
their highly developed technology (the best ships of the known world) and
an equally highly developed society (Iceland had one of the first "parlia-
ments" in the world).

So, in the end, "barbarian" means almost whatever you want it to mean.
In my imagination it is connected with a comparatively low technology
(much lower that that of the OTU).
 
Cleon the Mad said:
Shiloh said:
Delerium said:
But even if we suppose all that, why is it a Service skill? ALL barbarians have Streetwise 0, that is my point.

Not quite all, and I'm only being picky to illustrate a point I missed in early chargen.

Only Barbarians whose first (18-22) term is Drifter-Barbarian will automatically have Streetwise. People who, erm, drift in later can choose it, but might pick one of the other 5.

...Drifter is one of the classes that's an exception, there is a blurb that states one uses the specalist class to gain one's basic training skills as a drifter instead of the service skill table.

Good catch, Cleon, old chap.
 
The earliest CT adventures used 'barbarians' to refer to the Zhodani Consulate and the nearby Vargr states. :) Basically, anybody who isn't an Imperial citizen.
 
While the term "Barbarian" is nicely amorphous, my general definition is someone who is from a pre-starflight society. So, TL 7- are "Barbarians" in this sense of the word, and TL 8 is borderline.

(I have no doubt that if we, today, were found by the Ziru Sirka and integrated into their interstellar empire, we would undoubtedly be "Barbarians" to them in just about every sense of the word. Just as much as a club wielding cromagnon who is wearing animal skin clothing would be to us.)
 
daryen said:
While the term "Barbarian" is nicely amorphous, my general definition is someone who is from a pre-starflight society. So, TL 7- are "Barbarians" in this sense of the word, and TL 8 is borderline.

(I have no doubt that if we, today, were found by the Ziru Sirka and integrated into their interstellar empire, we would undoubtedly be "Barbarians" to them in just about every sense of the word. Just as much as a club wielding cromagnon who is wearing animal skin clothing would be to us.)

Probably true, although I usually do define "Barbarian" if one wishes to take the class (or I suppose with MongTrav the subclass) to require the character start from a planet with a trade classification of Low tech. Each edition/version of Traveller always had the Barbarian having skills that IMO reflected that.

Delerium posted this also: " still think streetwise shoudn't be on Service skills though, as it really fits in nicely with the other 2 subclasses that use it, but not so well I think with barbarians"

Delerium, if I may take the liberity of a potential house rule, what you could do is always let a barbarian character roll on the service table, but if he rolls streetwise he has to reroll, if he gets it again he can keep the skill? Again I only use TL to define "Barbarian" for character purposes so for my games streetwise fits but that might help in your perception of the class perhaps. Again, take or leave that as you will, was just a random idea that hit me.
 
Yeah not a bad idea that. But I suppose at the end of the day, its only 1 of 6 skills. For some reason my players seem obsessed with the body building options of Personal Development..hehe
 
Delerium said:
Yeah not a bad idea that. But I suppose at the end of the day, its only 1 of 6 skills. For some reason my players seem obsessed with the body building options of Personal Development..hehe

Weird, unless I'm missing something. Unless it also has a skill I want and no other table has it, or I get a character with an abnormally low stat and I want to gamble with raising it, I almost never roll on that table. I just go for as many skills as possible regardless of Traveller version most of the time. Although I could see someone getting JOT-3 in MongTrav early on in character generation, thinking "Hey, I'm basically level 0 in any skill now..why not buff my stats to high heaven then!".
 
Cleon the Mad said:
Delerium said:
Yeah not a bad idea that. But I suppose at the end of the day, its only 1 of 6 skills. For some reason my players seem obsessed with the body building options of Personal Development..hehe

Weird, unless I'm missing something. Unless it also has a skill I want and no other table has it, or I get a character with an abnormally low stat and I want to gamble with raising it, I almost never roll on that table. I just go for as many skills as possible regardless of Traveller version most of the time. Although I could see someone getting JOT-3 in MongTrav early on in character generation, thinking "Hey, I'm basically level 0 in any skill now..why not buff my stats to high heaven then!".


Basically, the min-maxers try to get a 9 or 12 in a stat, if they start with an 8 or 11, as it effectively raised skill level in ALL related skills by 1, even the zero-rated.
Also,if you hit a 9 or 12 , increases your chances to survive a long-term career or gain advancement and so pick up more skills at the end of the day.

Each to their own. Nothing weird about it.
 
Delerium said:
Cleon the Mad said:
Delerium said:
Yeah not a bad idea that. But I suppose at the end of the day, its only 1 of 6 skills. For some reason my players seem obsessed with the body building options of Personal Development..hehe

Weird, unless I'm missing something. Unless it also has a skill I want and no other table has it, or I get a character with an abnormally low stat and I want to gamble with raising it, I almost never roll on that table. I just go for as many skills as possible regardless of Traveller version most of the time. Although I could see someone getting JOT-3 in MongTrav early on in character generation, thinking "Hey, I'm basically level 0 in any skill now..why not buff my stats to high heaven then!".


Basically, the min-maxers try to get a 9 or 12 in a stat, if they start with an 8 or 11, as it effectively raised skill level in ALL related skills by 1, even the zero-rated.
Also,if you hit a 9 or 12 , increases your chances to survive a long-term career or gain advancement and so pick up more skills at the end of the day.

Each to their own. Nothing weird about it.

Oh, "weird" wasn't to flame, I guess I just don't tend toward "min-maxing" overall. Still seems like a gamble though, one is hoping to raise a stat that is one below the next bonus threshold over gaining a skill. Guess I'd still rather have a lot of skills, but again to each their own. Closest I do come to min-maxing is seeing if I can get at least a point of JOT, and even then I also somewhat like the RP aspect of it, trying to figure out WHY this guy has a knack at doing things he's not actually trained to do. Instinct? Exceptional memory? Ability to put to practical use the knowledge that the EDU stat implies? Or some other reason? Anyway, if I get JOT in any edition of Traveller, I do try to come up with a reason I haven't used much yet (or better yet a new one) as to why the fellow is a "specalized non-specalist".
 
Is it wrong that I really dig the idea of the Streetwise Barbarian?

You know, a barbarian that migrates to a Startown and starts to drift...used for their savage skills, raw physiciality and code of honor as poorly paid manual labor on the docks or as disposable enforcers and muscle by crime lords.

Eventually the fresh from the farm/horde barbarian either gets street smart or winds up dead, imprisoned or horribly abused.

I mean, really, I just can't see low tech immigrants being treated all that well in the Imperium...
 
Tipsy said:
Is it wrong that I really dig the idea of the Streetwise Barbarian?

You know, a barbarian that migrates to a Startown and starts to drift...used for their savage skills, raw physiciality and code of honor as poorly paid manual labor on the docks or as disposable enforcers and muscle by crime lords.

Eventually the fresh from the farm/horde barbarian either gets street smart or winds up dead, imprisoned or horribly abused.

I mean, really, I just can't see low tech immigrants being treated all that well in the Imperium...

Since I have no problem with streetwise being a skill for Barbarians, no. :) One could say whatever term he gains streetwise is the one where he left his homeworld by whatever means and started to "planet hop". (Although again I can see a barbarian getting streetwise without ever leaving his low tech homeworld/community, but I digress).
 
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