SST - Status of Air units that land

[Adastra]

I forget under which post it was, but a little while back I remember reading that air units which land can still be reacted to by AA fire in that phase since they started the phase in the air. However, in the main rules the last portion under Move (Land) reads, "....the unit lands and is now treated as a ground unit." To me, this means that at the end of the air unit's Land movement it's sitting on the turf and couldn't be reacted to by AA fire (I'm thinking Plasma Bugs here), although enemy ground units within range could react to the air unit. Am I reading that right, or did I miss something?

 

[xenopsyllus]

It was ruled that a landing air unit become a ground unit at the end of the turn. Since it moved as an air unit, models react to it as an air unit (think throwing up flak as it tries to land).

 

[JoseDominguez]

Yup, it means that drop capsules in the air phase can land 1" away from plasma bugs and nothing happens. If you are player one then next turn you wipe them out.
Wierd really.


I know it's meant to let AA hit them...... but when does that happen in reaction?

Also.... is a plasma bug AA still FF arc? If so you'll never score a hit as the caps will just drop next to it's head.

 

[Hiromoon]

Yep, it's still forward facing, Jose..

 

[Major Chaos]

Actually is is FxR but i think that is what you are trying t say...

 

[Adastra]

Park the Plasma Bug with his head in the corner of the table on your side, rear aimed about 45 deg. off the side edge. Minimizes your blind zones, and with a 2nd Plasma in the other corner set up the same way for mutual support you should be covered all around.

 

[JoseDominguez]

you'll never cover the back 6" of the board though.

 

[xenopsyllus]

Yup, it means that drop capsules in the air phase can land 1" away from plasma bugs and nothing happens.

Why? There's no minimum range on direct fire mode, and plasma bugs have to use direct fire mode against air units.

 

[Ilushia]

I wrote the rules masters about this one specifically (It's in my thread about Size and LoS) they claim that air units remain air units until the end of the air phase. So AA will get to react to them. It seems perfectly reasonable to me, as it prevents things like the aformentioned Caps dropping in right infront of a Plasma Bug and not being able to be fired on. It also prevents Hoppers from dropping in near Exosuits effectively, or anything with AA weapons.

 

[Anonymous]

but the plasma buf still has a F x R fire arc, so you just drop in next to it's head and there's nothing it can do right?

Or have I missed a rule that says plasma bugs can haul their backsides over scorpion style against air units?

you come on at burn and have to get within 30" so you can land at the end of the phase, basically there's no way you can place a plasma bug and not leave a blind spot... it's centre point is too far from it's head, so there will be a gap to one side if the entire bug is on the board. You have a 60" burn move to get into this blind spot and within 30" of it's head. Second action you fly in 30 and land next to it. It can't react as you aren't in it's rear arc.
On most board, 60" is enough to get from one of your set up board edges to the other side of the board, and as land is 'up to the minimum move distance' you can move 0 and land on the spot.
Think about it, the plasma has a fixed rear weapon. If you can get behind (in front really) of it's centrepoint, then your safe.

Maybe introduce a minimum distance on a land action? E.g burn for first move then at least 15cm in the same straight line?

 

[Quark]

Unfortunately that is the Plasma's weak spot. That fire arc is VERY restricted. Even in the corner of the table there will still be spots outside the fire arc. Run a missile down that line, or drop CAPS in pods right next to it and it's lunch. Period. You either have to have another plasma that can cover the first ones blind spots (and vice versa), or simply be prepared to lose a bug.

 

[Ilushia]

Keep in mind the other thing this means is that if you try that the bug player can bring in a squad of Hoppers and do a Charge(Flyby) on you, and potentially see your entire expensive squad go 'splat' before it hits the ground. Especially since doing so means you're dropping RIGHT next to his lines. Kamikaze Ripplers are wonderful for this too (Remember they get to attack EVERY unit in their way with their CC attack and don't die until the end of the action. Meaning three of them swiping into a unit of 6 drop caps could easily be looking at 4xD10+4 to EACH drop cap!)

 

[JoseDominguez]

Nope, any MI player relying on that tactic would take fleet liason and make the bugs take the first air turn anyway.

 

[Anonymous]

Jose happens to be correct, but even if the bugs got the second turn, it still wouldn't matter. Both drop pods and missilses move fast enough that they will already have accomplished their mission by the time the bugs come on.

 

[Ilushia]

That's why you need TWO units of Aircraft :roll:

Seriously though. A unit of 3-5 Hoppers (A lot of Bug players take these just for the benefits) and a unit of 3 Ripplers. Move the hoppers onto the board first, then once the MI has charged Yon Droppods across the field, you hit them with the Kamikaze Ripplers. 105 points of ripplers to kill something like 190-400+ points of MI is a fairly sweet deal, IMHO. Since players alternate in the Air Phase it's not a very hard thing to do. Remember the Drop Pods are still Aircraft until the end of the Air Phasae. So even after they 'drop' and land they're aircraft and can be kamikazed. Missiles are what you save your plasma shots for whenever possible.

 

[Adastra]

Kamikaze Ripplers are wonderful for this too (Remember they get to attack EVERY unit in their way with their CC attack and don't die until the end of the action...

Are you sure about this? In the Arachnid Army Book, the rules for Kamikaze Ripplers states: "However, any Kamikaze rippler bug will be automatically killed after making a close combat attack against an air unit." That suggests one attack, then the Rippler dies.

 

[Adastra]

More importantly, why do my quotes show up differently from the ones other people put up?

 

[Anonymous]

That's why you need TWO units of Aircraft :roll:

Seriously though. A unit of 3-5 Hoppers (A lot of Bug players take these just for the benefits) and a unit of 3 Ripplers. Move the hoppers onto the board first, then once the MI has charged Yon Droppods across the field, you hit them with the Kamikaze Ripplers. 105 points of ripplers to kill something like 190-400+ points of MI is a fairly sweet deal, IMHO. Since players alternate in the Air Phase it's not a very hard thing to do. Remember the Drop Pods are still Aircraft until the end of the Air Phasae. So even after they 'drop' and land they're aircraft and can be kamikazed. Missiles are what you save your plasma shots for whenever possible.

so the MI brings on a unit of eight cap drop troopers all spaced 3" apart. Ripplers charge in, you switch out the good target for morita MI, ripplers kill 3 models max (size two so each can only target one drop pod).
You lose 105 points of ripplers automatically, the MI lose 135 points of troops (35 pe trooper + 10 for pod). remaning MI are still in combat with your plasma
I send in three drop units, two are just MI with frag grenades and no special weapons. They soak up the air bugs, last unit in is usualy a fully loaded pathfinder squad.

Other advantage is once this has happened once, the bug player will split his forces to leave something to cover the plasmas/brain. That works even better than having to kill warriors, just ignore them, take out the attacking wave then go for the defenders.

 

[Ilushia]

Problems with that: Aircraft attacks work differently then ground attacks (You attack each unit you get within your PBR when making an air attack that way). If you're really worried about losing ripplers, take hoppers. Most MI don't want to see you throwing D10+1 dice against each member of a 5 man squad. And 3 ripplers can cover that entire squad fairly easily with some fore-thought about how you set them up. Especially with a 20" move to get in range first, then a 20" charge for your second move! You might not wipe the entire squad, but you're likely to leave it with just 1-2 guys left alive. Or you can simply Fly(Land) the hoppers inside 10" of the MI drop-pods when they land. That way when they do anything next turn you get to react and kill them with reactions.

I'm sure you can throw out a screen of normal MI with no upgrades to speak of as 'chaff'. But that means you're blowing points on squads which are unlikely to hurt the bug player seriously. Which is fine with me! I'd much rather see 2 empty squads and 1 squad of Pathfinders then 2 squads loaded with missile launchers, personally. Far less likely to kill my plasma bug(s). And yes, while you can get around the plasma bug's FoF. You can still do lots of things to stop the MI if they try it. Hoppers and Ripplers are my favorites. To be honest I think most people underestimate the bugs' AA capacity. It's mostly that the bugs' AA comes not from ground-units but from their own air-units.

 

[JoseDominguez]

Most players make the mistake of worrying about exchanging models on a points for points basis..... e.g. if my unit doesn't take out equal points value then it's not worth it. That's the best way to lose. During my last game, the most valuable unit for me was a squad of pathfinders who never fired a shot, the bugs withheld all of their air units to take out this unit, when it finally arrived they sacrificed half of their hoppers to get to them past two reliants. Next turn the pathfinders went down a tunnel and readied..... bugs couldn't advance and became bottlenecked.
So, one unit ruined 15 hoppers, then held off what turned out to be twenty warriors and a tanker. (previous game a tanker had advance on a pathfinder unit underground, got within 10" and was ripped to pieces by the javelin, flamers and frag grenades next turn.... tanker is really held up underground, on top it could just flame the pathfinders, underground it's got no hope
I'd far sooner have some low point caps that prevent the hoppers from being efficient and a squad of pathfinders who can easily rip a plasma apart in one turn.
And even low cost caps can have frag grenades and snipers.