SST box contents, price, and cover art - opinions?

Would you still pick up SST now knowing whats in the box?

  • Yeh I think its reasonably priced

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yeh, but I think its over priced

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, I think its over priced and/or is out of my price range

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No, I'd rather spend my money on something more secure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

AD

Mongoose
The contents of the box are now up, along with some pretty poor box art (i cant draw for toffee, but it does look far too cartoony)

The box contains:
16 MI
20 Bugs
a card bunker
rulebook (100 pages)
card counters (for various things)
Price tag? £50

I dont know about you but im disappointed. Okay model wise the troopers are more interesting then good, and the bugs are fantastic atm, but its not that great really. I mean, if people want a card bunker, its not hard to get a template off the net, and the card counters for bug holes could have been a paper download.

I mean, we were told that they (the almighty packaging people of mongoose) would be craming as many bugs in as possible. Seems to me they've put in two squads and are using card to bulk things up.

Seeing as its now the same cost as a GW battalion or even there starting game/s, would people really pick up SST (which is still suffering from problems about release date) or pick up warhammer (been around, staying around)?
 
I'd go for SST for the simple fact that Warhammer Fantasy has way too many complicated movement rules to quickly understand by yourself.

Quantity is not important, as long as, like Warhammer 40k, the game is actually fun to play, imho.
 
I'm on the fence about buying it now. I figured the lowest number of bugs would be 24, yet MP proved they have the nads to go even lower.

Heck, 8 MI and 30 bugs would have at least LOOKED better.

I do realize the bugs are large and maybe there is a "game" reason for having almost a 1:1 ratio of MI vs. bugs but it still doesn't seem "right".

36 miniatures at $75 seems to be way too much. That's $2 for a plastic miniature. I guess they expect the book to pay for itself as well. The book should be a loss leader but it was their decision. The card building DOES NOT COUNT as something to pay for either. I'd rather they simply left that out. I thought they expected "experienced" hobbiests to buy this, so why put in something most experienced hobbiests don't need?

Box sets are generally a "good deal". This box set does NOT qualify as such.

I really wonder how well it's going to sell now. I want this game to be a success, but my experience tells me that this is not the way to start...
 

MongooseMatt

Administrator
Staff member
Okay, let me explain.

What you won't 'get' at the moment is how HUGE the basic box set is. If you remember the old 'standard' size of GW games (such as 40k 3rd ed, Space hulk, etc), the box is both wider and thicker. There is little 'waste' space inside and we have crammed in as much as we possibly could.

The Warrior Bugs are large. Large. If you remember how they could tower over a guy in the film, the miniatures can do the same thing. In bulk, they are probably a little larger than Tyranid Warriors. Can you imagine 20 of those in a box, _plus_ 16 (2 squads) of Troopers? That is the ballpark Starship Troopers is in.

As for the 'squad' box sets, the MI are comparable to Marines in the UK (2 less models, more squad options - and a maximum sized squad in ST is 8), though better value in the US (that is the way the pricing works), while the Warrior Bugs will have 6 in a box for £15/$19.95 which, again, I think you will find compares very well to Tyranid Warriors (you are getting twice as much).

We had hoped to put 30 Bugs in the box and we went through a lot of combinations to make this happen - unfortunately more bugs could not be put on each sprue thus leaving the only other option to have a box that was extremely thick in dimensions. I have to confess, that did appeal to me but for reasons of shipping and shelf display, it could not happen.

This all, of course, quite ignores the game itself :) We'll be posting some previews of the rules system starting next week, so you can begin making judgments on those lines too.
 
I wasn't aware the Bug box was 6 models @ $20. That makes the starter box set a better deal, in a way. I thought the bug box was going to be 10 or 12 per.

I was hoping to build a big bug horde but at $3+ each, probably not going to happen. Note, I appreciate the scale but that still doesn't justify the cost. Maybe I haven't gotten used to the inflation that's been occuring (thanks Bush) yet? :?

I guess the positive is there will be less for me to paint so I can get them on the table and play games faster! :lol:
 

^Raven^

Mongoose
I can undertand the issues regarding box size although I completely disagree with them. I realize stores have limited shelf space and larger items can cost more to ship, although 9 times out of 10 shipping cost is based on weight and not on size...actually 10 times out of 10 shipping is based on weight and method and not solely on size, but if the box had great stuff and if the game is incredible and if the demand exists stores will give the shelf space for the game. A larger box, whether thicker or longer, would still have made its way onto store shelves with everything else being equal.

In the beginning I was disappointed with the rumors of how few models would be in the boxed game and other boxes. But, I was set to live with those numbers. I was hopeful for 48 bugs and 24 MI in the boxed game but knew that to be unlikely. I still hoped that numbers could be closer to that in the final product.

I understand about game quality of models but I hate when companies price models higher than are better in the game. Model cost should not be based on their value in game but on the cost to make the items compared to the demand. I'm talking simple supply and demand graph. As the supply and demand goes up the price goes down. 50 GBP for this is a lot of money! I realize that experienced gamers, and when I say experienced gamers in this post I mean people who are older and have full-time decently paying jobs with likely a spouse and perhaps children the house and car and etc, are more likely to afford that 50 GBP but pricing this so high excludes many people. I'm a student and I don't have much money. I work a few jobs to help pay for school and I'm covered in loans. After graduation I'm gearing up for law school. That's another expense. 50 GBP is a lot of money to pay for what comes in the boxed game. I realize this is "only" $74.95 USD but I think that's too much for a boxed game too. I liked it when boxed games cost $49.95.

I'm also curious where the numbers came up for the models in box. I see Mr. Sprange mentioned UK squads. Are we talking UK Army squad size? I'm used to squads being 10-12 people, with an emphasis on 12 rather than 10, not 8. Also, based on the numbers does this mean the average squad size for Arachnid Warriors is 10?

I want to echo what others, most notably Ad, have said. The card bunker is really an item that be gotten for free online from most anywhere. Or, if Mongoose wished to put one out they could have had a pdf for people to download. This is also true for the card counters. Others have said it and I'm echoing that those should not have been in the box or if people want them so bad they should not be included in the cost equation. The rulebook is an item I can understand being costly. Granted that I think it should have been sold separately and for less than $30 or at $30, I get core RPG rulebooks for around $30 or $40 and I'm okay with that, but the rulebook can only eat up so much of the cost.

Boxed games are, or should, be intended to get players started in a game and excited to get more at a relatively reasonable price. I seriously had hoped that 24 bugs or even 12 would be included in a standard Arachnid Warriors squad box. Finding out that only 6 will be in that for $19.95 is a shame. Yeah the models are slightly larger but there's less of them. Of course, with 20 of them in the boxed game one should, I suppose, expect that only 6 or thereabouts would be in a squad box. A thing to remember is these are the rank and file units. They're core, they're troops, they're the thin red line. They're should be more not less and especially at the listed price.

I'm also concerned that due to the price/contents comparison that fewer stores will want or be able to actively stock this item. They may have a hard time, even with the incredible MI, getting customers to want to buy the product. Why spend $74.95 on this new game with not much in the box when they can get more for an established game with a strong gaming community? I really want Mongoose to succeed in this venture and I am excited about the game as a complete product. I'm just terribly concerned and worried about the decisions made concerning the boxed games price/contents comparison. As an aside, what's up with that box art? It is terribly cartoonish and feels childish to boot.

I wish to come to my conclusion of that the box and everything is most likely set in stone and unable to be altered at this point in time. I'm sure others will/are upset over it like people who have expressed their opinions already. I also wish to thank Mongoose for providing the customer, such as myself, with a chance to express their opinion and their distraught emotion and also for being a wonderful company that usually listens to and implements customer feedback. Not many companies do and this is one of Mongoose's keystones. I sincerely hope that in a new release of the boxed game that the contents can be updated, price fixed, and that the contents can also be better selected.
 

mthomason

Mongoose
^Raven^ said:
I'm also curious where the numbers came up for the models in box. I see Mr. Sprange mentioned UK squads.

I think he was referring to the UK price for marines in "that other game", in that the same comparison in US prices works out more favourably.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hello,

what is inside the box and the price made by mongoose is not really a surprise for me, all games boxes are very expensive, except for Void's box, but Bugs are not genestealers, they are in parts and of a bigger size. So 20 Bugs is a good number, for me, and 16 MI is good too.

No the problem is to making bigger and bigger games boxes, with lot of things to justify his price. Again, now prices are commonly out of reason. I explain: in the past the game's price used to be lower, metal figures too, and now a little blister with an approximatively sculpted model is at 15€.

I know by experience that a good game is not in "correspondance" (excuse me I don't know if it is good) with his price, but many many people want at the same time a good game and a price about 50€, even with less figures.

Why? Look at GW warhammer 40K experience, a good game, but a box and a book, so people with less money may play with. Like Confrontation and other games the rules with the figures is also a good option, but it is not really the problem. I think like Void conceptors, a book, supplements and anyone can play.

I expect that you will understand my point of view, a book at side of the box,

Once.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Guys, What you all are forgetting is THANK GOD these guys arn't GREED WORKSHOP. Look at the price comparison on average 10 GW SM for around $25 or 8 ST for $15. What the Hell are you all bitching about? It's a game designed BY gamers FOR gamers, and NOT to SCREW us. Thats why Andy left GW. I agree that card stuff and counters could be downloaded but lets be honest they don't take that much room anyway. Lets wait and see.

Me I already ordered my set from http://www.thewarstore.com the combo deal which was awesome at:

1 Starship Troopers Minatures Game Box set
1 Mobile Infantry Squad Box Set
2 Arachnid Warrior Bugs Box Sets - can you ever have enough bugs?
Save $25 over the retail price!
Price : $109.99
 

mthomason

Mongoose
Once upon a time said:
I expect that you will understand my point of view, a book at side of the box,

So maybe Mongoose could sell the book seperately via the website (if not via retail channels)? Sounds like this might help to sell a few people who may otherwise sit on the fence over the decision to get the game or not.
It'd also help those who want to split the box contents with a friend.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You exactly resume my point of sight (better than me... :? ) and be sure that I don't want to hurt anybody, price is always difficult to judge.

Once- thank you for this skirmish game :D
 

AD

Mongoose
Guys, What you all are forgetting is THANK GOD these guys arn't GREED WORKSHOP. Look at the price comparison on average 10 GW SM for around $25 or 8 ST for $15. What the Hell are you all bitching about? It's a game designed BY gamers FOR gamers, and NOT to SCREW us. Thats why Andy left GW. I agree that card stuff and counters could be downloaded but lets be honest they don't take that much room anyway. Lets wait and see.

Me I already ordered my set from www.thewarstore.com the

Ive been gaming since those sets didnt exist. They started off £10 for ten marines - half the cost of the metal. Over the years it went up by 50%.
Its people buying on impulse masses of box sets that basically handed it too workshop on a platter (notice ogre gnoblars are £18 a box? they work out the same cost as goblins if you spend £120...). What your getting is GW prices before the gamers gave them money printing ability.
Andy got sacked, not fired. Rightly so IMHO (covert all your marines to carry toothpicks - they now have CCW. Give the others chainsaws. They have CCW), but enough of the workshop bashing.
The card building could have been printed on the back of the lid. anyone who wanted it could have cut it out.



I'm a student and I don't have much money. I work a few jobs to help pay for school and I'm covered in loans. After graduation I'm gearing up for law school. That's another expense. 50 GBP is a lot of money to pay for what comes in the boxed game. I realize this is "only" $74.95 USD but I think that's too much for a boxed game too. I liked it when boxed games cost $49.95.
Exactly. Both me and raven are in the MI, so will be getting the box sets to demo with, but its not the point. Step back and look at it. The game is two months late so impulse buying wont occur, it costs more then was first suspected (so the disilusioned 40k players, mostly vets, probably wont convert) and the models whilst seeming okay arent something to scream and shout about at the moment (remember the first time to saw plastic marines? thats what im talking about), barring of course the bugs.

I wasn't aware the Bug box was 6 models @ $20. That makes the starter box set a better deal, in a way. I thought the bug box was going to be 10 or 12 per.

Neither was I. Thats been dropped again. Its been halfed actually...


As for the 'squad' box sets, the MI are comparable to Marines in the UK (2 less models, more squad options - and a maximum sized squad in ST is , though better value in the US (that is the way the pricing works), while the Warrior Bugs will have 6 in a box for £15/$19.95 which, again, I think you will find compares very well to Tyranid Warriors (you are getting twice as much).
I dont think your rite there Matt.
The marine box set now comes with everything (so ive been informed) needed to make and special weapon, but still only the rocket launcher (same as mongoose). Marines have always been a firm favorite of mine even when i switched to fantasy. Mongoose so far havent proven your lead set better - which is what you need to do to even begin tempting players.
The Tyranid warriors, yes have less models, but again you get plenty of extra bits for your mula (and with the new version of the nids coming out soon, there will probably be all the options on the frame), and were always going to be 3 models to a box. Mongoose have been inconsitant to the point of insanity with.... well everything really. I mean, there were always going to be less bug players because of the way life is - success of marines and guard show that - but if its more expensive for bugs then people will only get them if they are dedicated players, have too much money, or plan to use them with *insert game here*

Granted the game system will speak for itself, but you need to look at the long term. If the Light MI are £15 and offer only 2 or three more marines, it wont work. Cadians are cheaper for more models, although granted less options its not like converting them is difficult even for novices.


Heck, 8 MI and 30 bugs would have at least LOOKED better.

I quite agree. Even having it 12 MI and 24-26 bugs would have simply looked better and got over the rite feel. One to one against bugs, MI have the advantage especially since they have the tower thing.

I'd go for SST for the simple fact that Warhammer Fantasy has way too many complicated movement rules to quickly understand by yourself.

Quantity is not important, as long as, like Warhammer 40k, the game is actually fun to play, imho.
Did i miss that one? They move X amount of inches, X listed under the M. They can move double for a march. If theres people nearby then you cant march. Flying things move faster. That, in effect, is all you need to know. Sure wheelings tricky, but if you find it that difficult dont use terrain till you work it out.

Quantity is important as 40k has proved. By making the game focused on the squad rather then the trooper, the game shifted so people had to buy entire units (conviently in a box). In the old rules you could buy a commander, a tank, and a squad, and it was an army and it was great to play because even if you only had a squad in your collection you could play it skirmish style and split the squad into single men running about (I ran a demo game like this for 40k 2nd and it proved successful. Try doing it with new edition...)



I worry a lot about Mongoose. It wants to give answers but the answers are either wrong or flawed. I understand you cant exactly make the box bigger and what have you, but you can imagine matt how many of us veterans who were looking for something new for whatever reason (price creap by workshop annoyed me, as did the growing group of people who bought everything as many times as possible and never considered things like strategy and the like) now feel screwed over yet again.
Please Matt, for the sake of the company, dont promise or tell us anything that isnt set in stone (how many times has the bug set changed in quantity and size? I count four since Novemeber. And as for MI supplies...).

Once you've said it, consider it set in stone unless you can change it for the better, that way no one can complain or feel annoyed. Write it on your computer, put it as a screen saver, tattoo it to your arm if necessary. That one sentence is how to succeed with your market audience (unless its changed to the generation that buys everything, in which case I shall cry and quit the hobby all together)
GW got where it has by gaining loyalty and then messing about (meaning it will stay for a very long time). Mongoose appear to be floundering a hell of a lot.[/quote]
 

MongooseMatt

Administrator
Staff member
Raven: I understand where you are coming from - at the end of the day we knew we were never going to please everyone. We haven't hit all your buttons and you will not be alone. However, we'll see that a lot more people are having their buttons hit.

Oh, and shipping can _very_ much be about volume, not weight. When you start filling cargo containers up, that becomes all too apparent :)

AD: I am afraid I am going to have to disagree with, well, practically everything you said in that last post :) We are going to do fine, Starship Troopers will prove popular and we'll do our best to remain as gamers and not become suits. Playing games is more fun anyway.

Please understand that while we do not run a company as you would, we have been here before. . .
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I for one will buy the box. The price is not so bad and I can't wait to kill some bugs. :wink: Plastic mold aren't cheap so I would imagine that the box reflects the cost of the mold. I would also like to see the game flourish so perhaps in the future Mongoose might change the packaging but for right now this is what we get. It seem's like all of the comments so far are from veteran gamers,that being said it has been my experience that you cannot satisfy veteran gamers. No matter how good something is they will find something wrong, so that they have something to bitch about.
All in all I will pick up my SST from Neal at the warstore because it sounds like he has a good deal going. I just wish that there were dropships and robots to start off with..............
 

nick klose

Mongoose
i must abmit the new numbers sound disturbing. i was going to play st as a fun game for kicks with my buddies but at the relitive cost of building a reasonable army i might as well just buid another 40k or fantacy army. (20 BUCKS AMERICAN FOR 6 BUGS, SOME OF US LIVE IN CANADA this means that i'll have to pay a lot for only 6 bugs!) a new warhammer army will last longer and be more usfule. however IF the bugs are relly as big as mongoose says. (large very open to interp) i might come back to the game more seriously. right now i'm plaing to buy the box set thats it, why? because i told a game store that i really wanted it. i would relly like to se a battle report or somthing sowing size of models when compared to gw models. i really like the game i trully do its just that i've beeen messed with before on other games.
 

mthomason

Mongoose
nick klose said:
i would relly like to se a battle report or somthing sowing size of models when compared to gw models.

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/news/news_item.php?pkid_news=45

The trooper on the left will be about the same size as a GW equivalent (Imperial Guardsman), hopefully you can use that to work out how big the bugs are :)
 

Mighty_army

Mongoose
msprange said:
Okay, let me explain.

What you won't 'get' at the moment is how HUGE the basic box set is. If you remember the old 'standard' size of GW games (such as 40k 3rd ed, Space hulk, etc), the box is both wider and thicker. There is little 'waste' space inside and we have crammed in as much as we possibly could.

The Warrior Bugs are large. Large. If you remember how they could tower over a guy in the film, the miniatures can do the same thing. In bulk, they are probably a little larger than Tyranid Warriors. Can you imagine 20 of those in a box, _plus_ 16 (2 squads) of Troopers? That is the ballpark Starship Troopers is in.

As for the 'squad' box sets, the MI are comparable to Marines in the UK (2 less models, more squad options - and a maximum sized squad in ST is 8), though better value in the US (that is the way the pricing works), while the Warrior Bugs will have 6 in a box for £15/$19.95 which, again, I think you will find compares very well to Tyranid Warriors (you are getting twice as much).


After watching this post, I regret to poll so fast. :(
Its really a good deal for the box content. :D
 

nick klose

Mongoose
when i examen things further i have to agre with might army their, perhalps i did jump in and post to quick. if the bugs are bigger than tyranid warriors and you get 20 of them then i think the game will turn out to be more than a fun game me and my boddies play for kicks. i dont know how points work in this game but if i'm gettinng 20 warriors in the starting box then i'll only have to bug maby one or two extra sets of warrior bugs to build a army. from then i can concentrate on tankers and hoppers. all in all i belive i was just stunned when i saw what can in the box and it was less models then what everyone had been saying. one thing that bugs me is the card bunker, i see no reason to bad talk it. belive it or not not only "gaming vetrans" will buy this game, many young kids will be into it to. and with what comes in the box set will any kid relly want to waste time downloding and building a bunker from paper down loads? no! they'll get a freind and launch a vicious aracnid attack on a defended mi outpost that is holding the line agaisnt a blood thirsty horde of bugs. To often young kids are forgotten in the equation. (i'm guilty of it to) card pop outs help them play a good game without having to build terain which lets face it no kid has the patience to do. I just like to say that mongoose has done a good job onthe models and i hope the game (with no battle reports or demos to go on i can't know).
sorry for any stupid or ignorant comments :wink:
 

^Raven^

Mongoose
Nick I hear ya about the kids but I disagree to a point. Today's kids are on computers and are more computer savvy at a younger age than even I was. I first used an old Apple in 2nd grade. I'm now 23. My 4 year old cousin is proficient in going online and basic computer usage. His 3 year old sister is almost as good. My 2 year old cousin can turn one on and off after being asked.

Kids who game tend to be geeks/outcasts/outsiders/loners/individuals/unique. They tend to be the ones who'll spend the time going on a computer to download a cardboard bunker to use in a game. They tend to be the ones that won't need such an item included in an expensive boxed game. I realize I'm making generalizations but these are generalizations based on gamer kids I know and myself. To be sure there will be kids who won't go online to download such an item or wouldn't know where to go (although if ignorance is the sole problem Mongoose could easily have made such an item available on its website and mentioned such a thing in the boxed game). But, one cannot make a decision for the silent minority. One must act for the majority. The cardboard building is intrinsically not a bad idea. It just could have been handled differently.
 

nick klose

Mongoose
kids love toys raven and lets face it companies like gw, privater, ikore and mongoosepublishing make the coolest toys around. i think kids will play the game, i don't think they are so clanish as you suggest ie the computer clan the sports clan and the wargame clan. i think kids that play halo2, wow and other games will play wargames. they certinly do were i come from. I can help but overhear kids talk about halo or killzone when their playing games and me and my freinds are playing some 40k 2nd edit or warmachine,gangsof megacity..necromuna......the list is endless. :)
 
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