Space Combat

u mean this??

Okay where to begin..

Ships:
first stat blocks.. ship stat blocks in B5 2e are much as they were in 1e. Ships still have a size, type, DV, armour, handling, stealth, sensors, crew, weapons and special qualities..

However vessels are also broken down into spaces.. namely weapon, control, engine and structure spaces. these represent all aspects of what make up the vessel from bridges, quarters, life support, hangars etc..

Assigning Crew:
Before most combats especially with player characters you have them assigned specific roles on a ship.. your best BAB guy is on weapons, your best pilot is at the controls, your guy with the best technical is in engineering etc.. so on PC vesels everyone can be involved to some degree.

Detection:
All combats start with Detection (an opposed sensor vs stealth check) if one vessel remains unaware of the other they can get a surprise action in the form of a free offensive order if desired.

Positioning:
Once vessels are detected the range is determined, range is broken down into three categories.. Close, Long and Disengaged. Range as with normal combat has an effect on numerous other aspects of combat such as hit chance, certain actions that can or cannot be performed etc..

Actions:
Okay.. next come actions. All vessels are entitled to one offensive, one defensive and one tactical order per round..
Orders can take many forms as ill mention below. Depending on the competence of your captain (determined by his knowledge tactics skill) and the skill of his crew may entitle them to more orders per round than this, but those are special as they are held in reserve and are called responses and are used to respond to the actions of the opposing vessel or circumstances that arise.

Note:It is possible to have less than 3 orders but usually it only happens with fighters or total novices behind the controls... in these instances then much like Partial actions in standard D&D these vessels can perform one kind of action or the other in a round but not all three.

All Tactical orders are determined first in a round the order is determined in much the same way as an initiative check would be except it is the commanders tactics + crew training that is used as the modifier.

Then Offensive orders and finally Defensive orders.. at the end of the round any unused responses (if any were available) may be used as a single additional last moment tactical order.

Orders:
Okay.. the Orders themselves constitute all the normal kinds of actions you would expect in any combat such as moving, firing, repositioning, dealing with crises, special manoeuvres etc...

e.g. Offensive orders all deal with attacking such as
All Hands...Fire At Will, which is a standard tactical order whereby the vessel fires at any vessel within the relevant arcs (front, rear, left, right..all weapons will be available in one of these on a vessel), with any weapons it wishes to fire.

Defensive orders deal with reducing the effectiveness of attacks or damage caused and Tactical Orders are all about moving and um..well tactics that can affect your lot in numerous ways.. tactical orders also covers things like jumping in and out, dealing with damage by starting repairs, boarding, through to getting in the escape pods and abandoning ship... Orders on the whole are a lot like those in ACTA in the form of special actions.

All orders of all kinds require a skill check of some kind (an Attack roll for shooting orders, through to a technical check for repairs or piloting checks for a manoeuvres) to have them performed..representing the crews competence and speed at responding to orders.. failing this check can mean it either doesnt happen (in the case of offensive or defensive orders) or that some result other than what was desired occured (in the case of tactical orders).
Some orders also require what is called a Stress check which is literally a test to see how well the vessel stands up to the stress of perofrming a certain manoeuvre with failure causing some damage to the vessel.

Damage:
Okay when a ship is successfully struck by an attack, you determine damage. Vessels in 2e do not have damage in the way weapons did in 1e.. i.e 2d10+20.. instead they have an offensive rating. A Light Fusion cannon has an offensive rating of 15 for example. You compare this rating and add +1 for every 5 points by which your attack rolll surpoassed the opposing vessels defence is compared to 20 +the Armor rating of the vessel (10+armor for fighters) the difference being the amount of damage inflicted in Spaces on the opposing vessel(s).
The exact type of spaces damaged is determined randomly (unless an order which allows you to aim for a specific type is used).

This is where the system really comes into its own.. for example say you take damage to weapon spaces.. your first 4 may be your fusion cannons, your next 4 may represent your heavy laser cannons... as those spaces are taken out so are your weapons.
Likewise your Structure spaces.. the first 10 may be your crew (1 of which you may have allocated to a notable NPC on board), the next 20 may be your fighter hangars..the final 10 your cargo.. as these get hit so do those parts of your ship..you lose crew..cargo.. Pc's quarters and possibly the pc's themselves may get hit..hangars destroyed preventing you from launching fighters..etc..

Control spaces representing crucial areas or systems like the Bridge..as these get this you suffer a penalty to command, which affects your ability to perform all orders..and therefore actions.

Engine spaces.. as these get destroyed your manoeuvrability decreases and so does your defence.. possibly even leaving your vessel adrift.

Armor Damage
Also when you attack a vessel the offensive rating +1 for each 5 points over the defence divided by 5 is also the amount of an opponents armour that they have removed allowing you to wear down larger vessels protection.

And thats it... the system is fast its detailed and its fun.. yes it is more narrative than the previous system but you can still use miniatures or maps if you want.

Personally I love the new system and I imagine it should appeal to any ACTA players out there too.
 
Shadow Queen said:
what happened to the hit points?

Essentially replaced by the idea of Spaces and Armour.

As the standard rules stand in 2e, ships do not so much have a single figure representative of thier structure, which when reduced means the vessel is destroyed. As opposed to having various space types (Control, Engine. Crew, Cargo, Weapons etc..).
When damage is done to these "parts" of the ship as opposed to the ship as a whole (a more realistic system imo), the damage being done to the specific sections have a chance of imposing an Impairment penalty on the ships operations related to that section (see Effects of Craft Damage table pg. 193 of the 2e Rulebook).
And if all the spaces of a particular type are destroyed then it suffers the Destroyed effects as listed per the table.

Also a ship is only considered completely destroyed (i.e BOOM) when it loses all its armour.

In this way ships tend to become disabled and drifting "usually" more often than destroyed unless a foe goes all out to annihilate an opponent, pounding away until all the armour is gone (also depends on the weapons high offence weapons like Shadow, Vorlon and Ancient obviously because of thier power tend to do more Armour damage).

NOTE: However if you prefer a HP style of system there is the option to use the Quick Space Combat - Damage system, which essentially ignores a vessel having Structural Spaces of Different types and just concentrates on a vessels total spaces figure.

So instead of Damage being being determined by rolling for location and the spaces removed being taken from the specific section hit (I.e Cargo, Control, Crew, Engine, Hangar or Weapon respecively) and damages having indivudal possible effects on those sections of a ship.. it instead Ignores all that, and the number of spaces lost is simply subtracted from a vessels Total Structural Spaces figure, with the vessel being destroyed when it reaches 0 (just like HP's essentially).

So say I shoot a G'Quan for 8 spaces of damage instead of rolling to see whether those 8 spaces are applied to Cargo, Control, Crew, Engine, Hangar or Weapon on the vessel, i simply subtract 8 from its total 70 Structural spaces, leaving it 62. and move on to the next ships action or next round etc..
 
hmmm I read through the rules (and used them with solo craft) and I thought the players could only use 1 order per round or two is they had the spacecraft proficiency feat?

So Tactical or Offensive or Defensive or Response?

Did I miss something?
 
thedarkelf007 said:
hmmm I read through the rules (and used them with solo craft) and I thought the players could only use 1 order per round or two is they had the spacecraft proficiency feat?

So Tactical or Offensive or Defensive or Response?

Did I miss something?

Nope you didnt miss anything though I did indeed miss a couple of "or's" from my explanation of orders originally as it got slightly changed post playtest.

Basically the number of Orders you have available varies based on either the pilot or commanders feats (as shown on the tables for Orders per turn on page 194 of the main rules). A vessel can have as few as 0 orders pur turn upwards to as many as 5 per turn.

Any orders not used during the vessels turn can be saved to act as "Responses". Responses work like normal order but work in "response" to certain orders issued by opponent vessels.

I hope that makes things a little clearer on the orders front.
 
Shadow Queen said:
u mean this??


Damage:
Okay when a ship is successfully struck by an attack, you determine damage. Vessels in 2e do not have damage in the way weapons did in 1e.. i.e 2d10+20.. instead they have an offensive rating. A Light Fusion cannon has an offensive rating of 15 for example. You compare this rating and add +1 for every 5 points by which your attack rolll surpoassed the opposing vessels defence is compared to 20 +the Armor rating of the vessel (10+armor for fighters) the difference being the amount of damage inflicted in Spaces on the opposing vessel(s).
The exact type of spaces damaged is determined randomly (unless an order which allows you to aim for a specific type is used).

where these rules are ?
i read the book several times and didn't find it .
 
I did read through the damage section and I thought it had offensie rating plus half of all other ratings in barrage...

and the ability to resist damage was just armour.

I could not find the offence increases by +1 for each 5 you exceed the vessels defence roll or where you add 20 to the armour (or 10 for star fighters).

This would make space combat quite a bit harder than I ran it last session...

It would also mean that a starfury would not be able to take out another starfury or raider vessel as their damage resistance would just be too high.

I'm sure it's there and I've skimmed over them (like I did the pilot of a solo craft uses pilot skill the first time I ran space combat), are these references on page 180?
 
Bare in mind the description of combat from the other thread was provided "pre release" based on the playtest of the game, so there may be some actual differences here and there with how the final release ended up.

This particular part
You compare this rating and add +1 for every 5 points by which your attack rolll surpoassed the opposing vessels defence is compared to 20 +the Armor rating of the vessel (10+armor for fighters) the difference being the amount of damage inflicted in Spaces on the opposing vessel(s).

Actually ended up being changed to Total Offence - Armour = Damage (i.e number of spaces inflicted)

I hope this clarifies this part for folks.
 
Shadow Queen said:
And first there is an opposed Sencors roll yes??

then an orders

then shooting

then damage yes??

Okay to try and avoid any further confusion I'll lay out spaceship combat as it stands "post" release in the current Rules.

STEP ONE - (PRE COMBAT) ASSIGN CREW
All vessels will have a commander. If this commander is Not a PC then simple use the normal Crew BAB and training bonuses for all attack and skill rolls.
However if it is a PC or a "specific" NPC (someone other than joe Average) then they use thier own, normally calculated attack and skill bonuses. NOTE Any without the Spacrecraft proficiency suffer a -4 penalty to ALL relevant skill and other rolls.
You may also assign individual PC's or notable NPC's to individual roles aboard a vessel as shown on the Shipboard roles and Skills Table on page 185. OR They may provide a bonus to someone in a role by "Helping Out". All this is discussed and explained on Page 184-185 of the rulebook.

STEP TWO - POSITIONING
All Space Combats involve a "centre" this is something of a story device.. think of it like a Movies Point of Focus.. I.e the Scene shifts to one major focal point and other scenes that it cuts away too are happening at various points away from this "Major" event/location.. B5 space combat works in much the same way. The Gm determines what the centre is, typically it is a large landmark (Jumpgate, space station, planetary orbit.. important vessel etc...) and everything else happens in various Range Bands moving out from this focal point.
There are Four range bands effectively - Beyond Sensors Band (effectively out of range, out of combat, escaped, out of sensor range), Sensor Band (close enough to scan an area but outside of weapons range), Long Range Band (far from the battles "centre" but still capable of interacting), and the Close Range Band (In the Heart of the action, near to the "centre").
The GM essentially determines which band each ship is in and what is the centre (which may change). Vessels are capable of closing or retreating from one range band to another via various orders (Close for BAttle and Pull Back for instance.
the exact effects of each range band, what actions ships of each range band may take with vessels of another range band etc.. is all explained on pages 186-187 of the main Rulebook.

STEP THREE - DETECTION
Most (but not all) engagements begin with vessels disngaged from one another, as they enter the sensor range band in order to scan for opponents and then move to close to the long and/or close range bands before engaging. However vessels are not always aware of each other and so each vessel must make a Sensors Roll

to make a sensor roll d20 + Sensor skill + Vessels Sensor Bonus + modifier (+5 with within long range of vessel being scanned, or +15 if within close range).

this number is compared to every other vessels Stealth rating (-5 per action they have performed that round), if the sensor check equals or exceeds this rating then it is detected!

NOTE The Sensor check is also the order in initiative the ship has (highest check first, through to lowest last).

some Orders will also automatically make your presence aware to opposing vessels and the Exact specifics of Detection such as how vessels arriving via a Jumpgate etc. factor into detection is all explained partially on page 187 but mostly on page 188 of the main rules.

STEP FOUR - ORDERS
Each vessels based on the commander/Pilots relevant feats or the Crews quality can perform anywhere between 0 and 5 orders each round.

Orders are broken into four categories Offensive - forms of attacking, Defensive - forms of reducing enemies combat effects, shaking locks and the like and finally Tactical - these are various maneouvers that dont fall into the other two categories like launching fighters, damage control, pulling back and the like. and finally Responses - responses are orders that act in opposition to some effect or circumstance in direct response to some specific order issued by an opponent in the hopes of negating or reducing the benfit they may have recieved.

Orders may be issues in any order and combination (i.e Offensive, Defensive and Tactical) during a players turn and any not issues may be kept to be used as Responses.

Final Note STRESS, some orders requires a vessel to suffer potential stress damage. If the order check fails it must make a Stress check yb making an Operations (Piloting) check against a DC equal to the vessels Stress statistic. Success means it avoids any stress damage, whereas failure means it suffers 2d6 Armour damage.

STEP FIVE - ATTACKING
Once vessels have determiend detection and therefore the order of initiative those who wish to can issue an offensive order and attack.

all attacks are limited by two factors.. Range and Arc of Fire, all weapons have a range, which means they cannot fire outside of that range band with that particular weapon. And all vessels mount weapons in one of four arcs - Fore, Aft, Port and Starboard and may only fire at vessels moving into that arc. (NOTE Turretted weapons can fire into ALL four arcs.

Once a vessel fires at an opponents, in much the same way as Personal Combat works the Gunner (or pilot if a solo craft) makes an attack roll.

ATTACK rolls work as follows IF he is also the pilot Firers BAB + Firers Dex modifier + Targeting Computer Bonus (provided a lock is obtained via the Lock Weapons order) + miscellaneous modifiers.

otherwise the attack roll is determined as follows Firers BAB + firers INT Modifier + Targeting Computer bonus (provided a lock is obtained via the Lock Weapons order) + miscellaneous modifiers.

If thew weapon is being fired by a non notable, non PC, then the formula is as above bute the Crew BAB is used as is no addition stat modifier is taken into account and then add the targeting bonus (if applicable) and any miscellaneous modifiers.

NOTE a natural roll of "1" is ALWAYS a miss and a roll of "20" is ALWAYS a hit, but may also be a critical.

If the result fo this roll equals or exceeds the opposing vessels Defence Value then the attack is a hit.

When a hit si scored you need to determine to the Total Offence of that hit especially if more than one weapon was involved (i.e a Barrage via relevant orders). This is done by taking the weapons with the greatest Offence rating used plus half the Offence for each subsequent weapon which hit.

specific rules for Twin, Tri or Quad linked weapons and special qualities, arrays, rapid fire etc..etc.. and hitting in general begins on page 189 and ends on page 190 of the main rulebook.

STEP SIX - APPLY DAMAGE
Once a hit has been determined and the tyotal offence been calculated damage is applied to an opposing vessel.

calculating Damage is done as follows Total Offence - armour = Damage. If the calculated damage of a hit is reduced to 0 then the attack is completely absorbed by the opponents armour and does no damage.

If however the damage of the attack is 1 or more then the attack has succeeded in damaging the opponent and for EACH point of damage caused one structural space on the opposing vessel is destroyed. These spaces are determined per hit not per space by rolling 2d6 and consulting the Random Craft Damage table on page 191 of the main rules.

When a Structural area of a ship is damaged and lose spaces (i.e Engines, Control, Crew, Cargo, Hangar or Weapon systems) it must make an Impairment resistance Check, the exact nature of this roll is shown on the Effects of Craft Damage table on page 193 of the main rules. If the roll succeeds the area isnt impaired and you continue with the round. If the roll fails then that aspect of the ship suffers the impairment effects as shown on the table mentioned. Each section may only be impaired once, but remains so until repaired..however a section may become Destoryed as mentioned below.

If ALL spaces of a particular area (Engines, Control, Crew, Cargo, Hangar, or Weapon Systems) then the vessel suffers the Destroyed Effects for that section of the vessel as shown on the table mentioned above (pg 193).

STEP SEVEN - REPEAT
Go back to Step Two at the beginning of each new round. Note however Initiative order stays the same for the most part so Detection is only necessary again if new people join combat (needs to joi the initiative order) or leaves combat (exits the order).

And that is essentially it... simple
 
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