Some small sugestions for initiative + boresight options....

[H]

I can't agree. using this special action, you can deny space to an enemy for up to 35" with the relevant weapons system in a 90 degree arc, that is a LOT of space. conversely, you can do it with a boresight ship and deny a line.. ok, you stop people crossing that line, but it's not the same as the lareg area covered by a front arc ship.
the relative restrctions on movement of ships is hugely different.
all this odes is add another special rule, it in no way can make a boresight weapon any more viable than it is now.

 

[stringvest]

It's still a trade off with the AD. You're more likely do more damage and get on target with forward arc in standard fire phase at that range. You could even say you forfeit the use of the weapon if you fail the Crew Quality check.

The decision favours the outsinked boresighted ship.

Also, the Special Command could be issued in the previous attack phase, ie weapon is being primed and targeted for predicted fire next turn.

 

[Locutus9956]

Yes but the point Hiffano is trying to get across (I think ) is that this rule doesnt alter the balance with Borsight vs Forward arc from where it stands currently, boresights will still potentially do more damage and forward arcs are still much easier to hit a target with in the first place. So the rule doesnt really actually CHANGE much.

Actually a thought has just occured to me. What if instead of everyone moving in turn then firing in turn what if the rules were take it in turn to use a ship/squadron (ie I move a ship and then fire all its guns, then you move a ship and fire all its guns and so on?) It would change the game somewhat but it might actually help the whole boresighting issue? It also stops the whole initiative sink thing dead in its tracks as far as I can see....

 

[H]

SHH!!! I have that in something I am writing!!

 

[Locutus9956]

Great minds and so forth etc etc

Actually the more I think about it the more this could actually work without really needing to change the fleets much (though perhaps an AD or 2 off some boresight guns might be in order....)

 

[stringvest]

Actually a thought has just occured to me. What if instead of everyone moving in turn then firing in turn what if the rules were take it in turn to use a ship/squadron (ie I move a ship and then fire all its guns, then you move a ship and fire all its guns and so on?) It would change the game somewhat but it might actually help the whole boresighting issue? It also stops the whole initiative sink thing dead in its tracks as far as I can see....

That makes a lot more sense. LOL. But what would then be the point of boresight in the first place? How would you deal with fighters then?

Sorry if I was flogging a dead donkey before, it just made a little sense to be able to predict targets through positioning and forfeit, rather than being the last thing to move.

 

[mollari_uk]

Unfortunatley it's been suggested before and it won't work. Think of using a ship last in the turn then using it first the next turn. Two whole rounds of firing and the battle field hasn't had a chance to change. Too powerful in this game.

 

[Ripple]

The move and fire thing has been proposed before... the down side is that fast maneuverable ships like the whitestar or vorchan become sitting ducks.

My take on it is that we want bore sighted ships to be able to target ships of similar maneuverability. Specifically we don't want lot's of ships being able to move into spots that should be viable targets but are not because of sinking. But in so doing, we do not want to lose the ability of small fast ships to move past a bore sighted ships.

This is where the various 'declared target' solutions help conceptually, the bore sighted ship is still maneuvering to point directly at the ship the final maneuver is just to small to be seen. Much like the idea that the whitestar is so nimble its boresighted laser is effectively front arc. So while a swarm of ships may sweep past a bore sighted ships front arc, at least one will pay the price. This makes sense as having more ships doesn't make any particular ship harder to target, which is the way current 'sinks' effectively operate.

If you move and fire, you will not only enhance the bore sighted weapon you will enhance all weapons on the ship, not only removing sinking completely but also the idea of a maneuver defense. I could not 'keep range', as an attacker would be able to cut range by his speed factor each turn, and fire at the shorter range. An Omega could lunge forward and turn in such a way as to use all weapons at once against my squadron that was going to be sailing past beyond range. It's a huge change.

Ripple

 

[stringvest]

Back to the dead donkey then.

Maybe the speed of the targeted ship has an effect on the hit/AD probability, of a ship in predicted fire mode?

 

[CZuschlag]

WarZone had this mechanic, and it resulted in some unusual tactics:

-- You needed a "Wait" action to make it all work. This ended up meaning you'd need to have the ability to reserve your fire options as interrupts. This could, of couse, get cumbersome; in a infantry tactics game, a given model unsually only has one weapon system, but, here, you have many. Reserving fire makes the game far more tactical. And note, boresight would still have some issues; reserving fire would be tricky.

-- Initiative becomes crucially important.

-- You still have "sinking"; doing this will allow you to set up double-moves along with fires. It happens when you have more troops and can reliably win initiative. In WarZone, with a d20 random system, this is far from assured; with some of the init modifiers we have and a 2d6 system, it becomes far more likely. And worse, only high ship-count fleets with high initiative will leverage it --- and, somehow, I don't think the Drakh and Centauri are currently our problem. Double moves are extremely powerful in WarZone, as they would be here.

-- With squadrons, you get perilously close to GW "I win initiative, so you lose" games.

These may all be solvable! But they are major hurdles to be carefully considered.