So far so good but....

[Thalran Korisha]

Let me start by declaring my love of RQ2, this should set the context for my post.

I was realy excited when i heard about the RQ4 and was praying for good things, some of which i have recieved!

things i really like!

I like the new damage system, it balances out the problem of trying to get a 2d6 damage bonus so they can punch threw walls.

I like the armour penalties to dex based skills including combat, it means there is now a purpose to lightly armoured characters.

I like the new rune system for battle magic, it brings runes to the for.

Thing i might grow to like. I have yet to play the system in to any great lengths but i think i could grow to like:

The simplification of attack/parry skills, why have two stats
The character generation and profesion system, seems comprehensive and fun.
the system for rune magic, not sure about the reason for characters having to pay hard cash etc when half there money goes to the cult anyway.

Which brings me to things i am worried about.
Rune Priests, why would you ever want to be one? are there any benifits over an initiate,
Runelords again they don't feel different enough to initiates to me, although they do get the DI role which is good
Sourcery: yuk! (just a personal thing)
Cults, What is going on with the RQ3 cults light business. I like my cults to be fleshed out. Quality not quantity. I am really worried that cults are going to get the same treatment as they did in RQ3. I my opinion they are the key to RQ, they are what players strive to achieve,skimp on these and you risk making the whole RQ4 experiance into just another RP fantasy game. You know go out kill things get stronger kill bigger things.


SO at the moment i am about to start running a RQ4 campain, i will run it warts and all to start with,hopefully the players and me will have a blast!
But please, please don't skimp on the cults, i would rather by 3 books with ten fleshed out cults in each of them than one book with 60 micky mouse cults.

Death to the red Moon

Thalran

P.S. Thanks for your time!

 

[Rurik]

What is this 'Moon' of which you speak?


(second age humor attempt btw)

 

[gamesmeister]

Amen to almost everything you say Thalran, in particular the parts about cults! Quality over quantity was one of the areas that defined RQ right back in the beginning, let's hope it stays that way.

 

[Thalran Korisha]

I have just looked at the preview for cults book 1, i have to say i am not impressed, it looks very much like the RQ3 Gods of Glorantha book. A lot cults reduced to the essential statistics and not a lot else.

Hope i am wrong but...


Thalran

 

[soltakss]

Gods of Glorantha was good because it described a lot of cults in a little space.

Presumably, we'll get long form cults at some stage, when area-specific supplements come out.

Don't forget that we had long-form cults written up in RQ3 Troll Gods, Elder Secrets, Lords of Terror, River of Cradles, Sun County and Shadows on the Borderlands. I can't see Mongoose not doing something similar.

 

[Thalran Korisha]

Beg to differ on gods of Glorantha being good. It was so poor that it required all the latter supplements that you have mentioned. Try playing a Babestar Gor rune lord on the info provided in GoG.

But this isn't about RQ3 its about the RQ4 cults book containing decent cult write ups as in Shadows etc. Get it right first time is all i am saying.

 

[Trifletraxor]

Yep. At least the major cults should be given some more detailed description.

SGL.

 

[Exubae]

I have just looked at the preview for cults book 1, i have to say i am not impressed, it looks very much like the RQ3 Gods of Glorantha book. A lot cults reduced to the essential statistics and not a lot else.

I agree with you on this, I was hoping for a more pantheonish based book-
Long write ups of the cults, Myths and legends associated to the cult, and interelations between cults, and outlook and motivation of members.

The long write up gives the social position in the cult and a reasons for it presence or lack of, also encourages methods of impossing a balance to make it fit logically in a game world.

GoG was pretty weak, the cults unbalanced Wachaza and Babeester gor being two of the most unbalanced cults I have the had the misfortune to have characters play in a game. It was OK for NPCs but little else.

By balance, I mean the cultural reason why every Orlanthi has not given up on Orlanth and joined Humakt, just because the later has got cooler spells.

Paul

 

[Trifletraxor]

Without a better description of the gods, the players motivation to worship them is reduced to getting the spells.

SGL.

 

[Darran]

Without a better description of the gods, the players motivation to worship them is reduced to getting the spells.

Too true!

 

[Durand Durand]

I agree, I'd tend to favour pantheon worship myself, with worshippers often shoing dedication to specific gods and heroes. Perhaps patrons for occupations and such.

DD

 

[homerjsinnott]

I have just looked at the preview for cults book 1, i have to say i am not impressed, it looks very much like the RQ3 Gods of Glorantha book. A lot cults reduced to the essential statistics and not a lot else.

I agree with you on this, I was hoping for a more pantheonish based book-
Long write ups of the cults, Myths and legends associated to the cult, and interelations between cults, and outlook and motivation of members.

The long write up gives the social position in the cult and a reasons for it presence or lack of, also encourages methods of impossing a balance to make it fit logically in a game world.

GoG was pretty weak, the cults unbalanced Wachaza and Babeester gor being two of the most unbalanced cults I have the had the misfortune to have characters play in a game. It was OK for NPCs but little else.

By balance, I mean the cultural reason why every Orlanthi has not given up on Orlanth and joined Humakt, just because the later has got cooler spells.

Paul

So you were playing a campaign on the ocean floor? Cool!
You could always veto what cults were appropriate for your players (Gasp!) :shock:

I agree that having longer cult descriptions would be better, but I did like many of the features of GoG, such as the pantheon distribution maps, what the Windlord (et al) says, the Prosopaedia and others.

 

[Darran]

As a quick pre-game [or even in-game] reference guide on cults, GoG was very useful.

However the detail and flavour about the cults needs to be there first.

 

[soltakss]

Beg to differ on gods of Glorantha being good. It was so poor that it required all the latter supplements that you have mentioned. Try playing a Babestar Gor rune lord on the info provided in GoG.

Not really. Babeester Gor, for instance, was never officially written up in RQ2 or 3, except in GoG, so that was the best you got.

The long writeups had more myths, the cult's place in the world, cult and temple structure, sub-cults and associate cults and general information. That's great and we'd all love to see it, but it isn't really essential in an introductory book.

What I'd love to see, actually, is a split between game world and game rules. So, I'd love Myths/Legends/Histories/backgrounds of Glorantha to be published completely separately to scenarios/cults/backgrounds. That way, we would have general books covering the history and myths of, say, Troll Lands, and other books covering the specifics of cults in short form, character generation and scenarios for RQ and HQ or whatever game system you prefer.

But this isn't about RQ3 its about the RQ4 cults book containing decent cult write ups as in Shadows etc. Get it right first time is all i am saying.

Since it takes something like 6 pages to fully write up a cult, RQ2/3-style, and one page to write a cult GoG-style, you can get 6 times the cults in sketch form which is ideal as an introduction for the whole, or a large part, of Glorantha. Even HeroQuest uses cut-down cult formats and these are quite sufficient.

I would love something like Cult Compendium for RQM, with expanded cults, but somehow I doubt if we are going to get it. For NPCs and unusual characters, the sketch format is fine.

 

[gamesmeister]

It is true that a lot of the myths/place in the world information on cults is already available, in earlier publications. I'm not saying it shouldn't be updated and reprinted as and when, but I guess in some ways it is better to get a nice range of cults out there for players to use, and then expand on them in other publications.

Also, although it refers to HQ rather than RQ, a lot of the myths for the Gloranthan cults are available at www.glorantha.com

 

[Exubae]

So you were playing a campaign on the ocean floor? Cool!
You could always veto what cults were appropriate for your players (Gasp!)

No - Pirates along the south coast of Maniria, it was fun for a while, ended up with cavat to the sanctify spell... can only be regained in a temple. which meant trips to Justrela.

Asside fro that Wachaza became one of the war gods of the Justreli acording to one or two sources... may be GoG
I admit to not having read the Fang of Wachaza Rune spell before alllowing a player access to the cult so... it was my own fault

Babeester Gor however is/was/or will be a mainstream cult in Esrolia, so its difficult to deny players access.

Still prefer full cult write ups to flavourless short writeups - as has been said before you just get a list of spells and skills, rather than what makes the deity and cultist tick.

 

[simonh]

What is this 'Moon' of which you speak?

The blue on, of course. He must be colour blind. Everyone knows that the blueskins are the descendents of Artmal Moonson, who was coloured after his mother, Annilla, the corpse goddess.

 

[homerjsinnott]

Babeester Gor however is/was/or will be a mainstream cult in Esrolia, so its difficult to deny players access.

Still prefer full cult write ups to flavourless short writeups - as has been said before you just get a list of spells and skills, rather than what makes the deity and cultist tick.

Fang was an amazing spell, and combined with slash!!!!?

But you are right to a greater extent about Babs, But I always felt that it wasn't one of the main warrior cults of Esrolia, an important and powerful one yes, but not a large one. And restrictive in it's role. Where as who would care what a husband deity worshipper got upto, right? :wink:

As long as they were home by ten...

PS I'm sure there was a full write up of BBG somewhere, in one of the Tales, I remember it now.

Ade.

 

[soltakss]

It is true that a lot of the myths/place in the world information on cults is already available, in earlier publications. I'm not saying it shouldn't be updated and reprinted as and when, but I guess in some ways it is better to get a nice range of cults out there for players to use, and then expand on them in other publications.

Having the myths in out-of-print supplements doesn't help new players, although the Cult Compendium has a hell of a lot of myths and is still in print, I think.

Better for Mongoose to publish more supplements with more cults.

Also, although it refers to HQ rather than RQ, a lot of the myths for the Gloranthan cults are available at www.glorantha.com

Myths are myths, they should be game-independent. In fact the cults on glorantha.com have largely been stripped of any game material and have myth and cult structure that could be used in any game using any rules.