Skeletons & Zombies

[Itto]

I noticed in the Core rule book, but I though I'd hang fire till the Monsters book, that Zombies and Skelies don't seem to have any special "undead" or Animation rules attached to them.

The classic thing with the old restless dead was having to take out the head or chest. But there is no mention now of any special way that they have to be taken out. Infact Zombies are weaker now than, well just about everything else really. As a standard Zombie would be taken out with 4 points of damage in the arm. Not very undead like really.

They seem to be missing a Creature Trait. So anyway here is a stab at an additional Creature Trait for the old shuffling favourites

Animitron
The Creature has no real soul and is created and controlled by magic’s both foul and feared. Destroying the head will break the magic’s that gives it its cruel semblance of life, destroying its chest/forequarters renders it incapable of any meaningful action. Causing a major wound to any other location just impairs its functionality. Which may or may not be repaired/healed at a later time.

On the missing creature trait theme I've noticed that Vampires seem to lack the Creature Trait Vampiric Touch.

 

[GbajiTheDeceiver]

More errors? :roll:

At the very least Zombies should have Resilience 100.

 

[Gnarsh]

Funny you mention that. I had actually already looked at the issue of zombies in MRQ. Although I approached it from the opposite direction. To me, the removal of total HPs, and change to the location damage rules effectively makes everyone a "zombie" in the older RQ sense. In the same way that aiming at a single location was the only effective way to take out a zombie, it's pretty much the same for regular folks in MRQ.

The first glance solution is to simply state that zombies always make their resiliance rolls. The problem with this then is that they can't actually ever be destroyed in MRQ since only by failing resiliance rolls can you actually ever be "killed" in MRQ. You could apply the old "double damage to a location destroys it", but then you're actually making zombies less tough then regular humans because a human could continue fighting even with his locations effectively "severed", while a zombie would immediately stop. Limbs would work just fine since the rules for those state that they're no longer usable, but the head/chest/abdomen wouldn't since as long as you continue making resiliance rolls, those locations don't actually stop you from fighting...

Actually, it's an odd reversal as it is since damage to limbs will more quickly affect a regular opponent then damage to the "vitals". Oddly, you're better off attacking the limbs of a tough fighter (one with a high resiliance roll), then the torso.

There's just no easy way to fix this IMO. You can make zombies tougher then people with low resiliance rolls, but not without making them weaker then those with high rolls. I suppose you could house rule that under on head/chest/abdomen also automatically makes all limbs count as "useless" (essentially, you drop prone in that condition), but the default rules don't actually say that (which is strange...). I suppose it's implied, but not actually stated.

 

[Utgardloki]

What about if the limbs continue to fight even when the rest of the body is destroyed?

So you have an advantage for destroying the torso, because then the arms fall apart. But then you have to destroy all those arms and legs, too.

As far resilience rolls, how about this: skeletons get twice normal hp per location, and zombies get three times. However, they suffer no effects until all the hp in a location are lost, and then that location gets automatically deanimated if it goes to 0 points or below. (Arms and legs become useless. The sensors are lost if the head is destroyed. The creature falls down if the torso is brought to 0 or lower, etc.) If a location loses more than twice its hp, it is destroyed. Skeletons and zombies never make resilience rolls.

Using these rules, you're better off disabling a torso (bringing it to 0) then destroying it (bringing it to -hp), but that's undeath. :twisted:

 

[Durand Durand]

I'd play the good old fashioned "Zombies must be hacked apart" rule, and skeletons must have their head or chest destroyed. I'd also rule Zombies always succeed in resilience rolls to continue functioning, and always fail resilience rolls to survive major wounds in vital locations. That way, limbs may continue to function until hacked off or mushed, and the zombie, once down, is down for good. I haven't seen th rules they present though, and don't know how well they were built before hand.

DD

 

[simonh]

Actually, it's an odd reversal as it is since damage to limbs will more quickly affect a regular opponent then damage to the "vitals". Oddly, you're better off attacking the limbs of a tough fighter (one with a high resiliance roll), then the torso.

Not realy, a limb reduced to 0 HP is just useless and the character always remains concious, whereas for a vital locaton you have to make Resilience tests to stay concious. You only have to do that for limbs when they're reduced to minus their positive HP. Typicaly for most characters this will take another few HP of damage.

Simon Hibbs

 

[kregmosier]

I'd prefer something Romero-style, like:

Zombies only suffer damage from Impaling weapons, and then only with a hit to the Head. All other hits cause only cosmetic damage. (missing limbs, hacked off bits, etc.) If a body part is destroyed/severed, the Zombie might lose movement capability, or become a 'crawler'.

Zombies wouldn't need to pass Resilience tests...I mean "handle adverse physical conditions"?? who cares...they just KEEP COMING. Posion, suffocation, sandstorms, unconciousnes, etc...they're just not affected by that sort of thing.

I'd also rule Zombies always succeed in resilience rolls to continue functioning, and always fail resilience rolls to survive major wounds in vital locations.

yes, or that sounds resonable if you are going to make them subject to the tests.


-k

 

[Deleriad]

Must admit that I would rule that zombies simply ignore the requirements for resilience tests. I would also say that damage has no effect - aside from extra ugliness - unless you manage to inflict a major wound with a single attack in which case the location is lopped off.

Zombies with a head lopped off would blunder around randomly but would use unarmed combat (largely bite and grapple) against anyone it bumped into. Depending on the animating spell, body parts that get lopped off would either become inert or crawl around randomly.

 

[Gnarsh]

Actually, it's an odd reversal as it is since damage to limbs will more quickly affect a regular opponent then damage to the "vitals". Oddly, you're better off attacking the limbs of a tough fighter (one with a high resiliance roll), then the torso.

Not realy, a limb reduced to 0 HP is just useless and the character always remains concious, whereas for a vital locaton you have to make Resilience tests to stay concious. You only have to do that for limbs when they're reduced to minus their positive HP. Typicaly for most characters this will take another few HP of damage.

Correct. However, reducing a limb to 0 HPs *always* prevents the limb from functioning. This will almost always dramatically reduce the effectiveness of that person in combat. Either leg will affect his skill chances, weapon arm will prevent him from attacking, parry arm will prevent him from parrying (or either for two handed use). The only time a limb at 0 does not affect the combattant is if he fights using a single 1h weapon for attack and parry (or dodges), and happens to be hit in the arm he doesn't use. Since most sane approaches to combat seem to involve either 2h weapon use and dodge, or 1h weapon use with a shield for parrying, that seems like an unlikely thing.

But with someone with a high resiliance skill, being reduced to 0 HPs on the head, chest, or abdomen has *no* additional negative effect as long as he makes his skill roll. In other words, if you get hit to zero on the chest and make your resiliance roll, you continue fighting with full capability (except for lost CAs, but that's the same regardless of location). That same amount of damage done to a limb will *automatically* reduce your ability to fight.


As I stated. If you're fighting a tough warrior (one with a high resiliance roll), you're vastly better off aiming for his limbs then his "vital" locations.