Simple armour degradation system

[Vortex]

I was thinking about the spaceship armour problem and I came up with this. I've never actually run any spaceship combat so I would like to know what you all think about it.

First, I started with the premise that even a single Delta-V, given a lot of time and energy and no resistance, could eventually bring down something like primus one very little bit at a time. Obviously, such an enterprise has to be very, very impractical.

The system can basically be boiled down to a single line: "Every time a ship's armour has absorbed a cumulative amount of damage equal to its original value, its current value is lowered by one."

Example 1: (I don't have ship stats with me so these are a really abstract example)
Defender: Armour value=10
Attacker: Total offence=12

1st hit: Def. takes 2 dmg, armour reduced by 1 (it absorbed 10)
2nd hit: Def. takes 3 dmg (current armour is 9), armour not reduced (it only absorbed 9)
3rd hit: Def takes 3 dmg (current armour is 9), armour reduced by 1 (9 before + 9 now = 18 so it is reduced and has already absorbed 8 so 2 more and it is reduced again)
4th hit: Def takes 4 dmg (current armour is 8 ), armour reduced by 1 (8 before + 8 now = 16 so it is reduced and has already absorbed 6 so 4 more and it is reduced again)
5th hit: Def takes 5 dmg (current armour is 7), armour reduced by 1 (6 before + 7 now = 13 so it is reduced and has already absorbed 3 so 7 more and it is reduced again)
6th hit: Def takes 6 dmg (current armour is 6), armour not reduced (3 before + 6 now = 9 so it is not reduced and has already absorbed 9 so 1 more and it is reduced again)
And so on…


Example 2:
Defender: Armour value=10
Attacker: Total offence=8

1st hit: Def. takes 0 dmg, armour not reduced (it only absorbed 8 )
2nd hit: Def. takes 0 dmg (current armour is 10), armour reduced by 1 (8 before + 8 now = 16 so it is reduced and has already absorbed 6 so 4 more and it is reduced again)
3rd hit: Def takes 0 dmg (current armour is 9), armour reduced by 1 (6 before + 8 now = 14 so it is reduced and has already absorbed 4 so 6 more and it is reduced again)
4th hit: Def takes 0 dmg (current armour is 8 ), armour reduced by 1 (4 before + 8 now = 12 so it is reduced and has already absorbed 2 so 8 more and it is reduced again)
5th hit: Def takes 1 dmg (current armour is 7), armour not reduced (2 before + 7 now = 9 so it is not reduced and has already absorbed 9 so 1 more and it is reduced again)
And so on…


Example 3:
Defender: Armour value=10
Attacker: Total offence=5

First 12 hits: Def. takes 0 dmg, armour is reduced every 2 shots. (5+5 = 10)
13th hit: Def. takes 1 dmg (shot 12 brought current armour to 4), armour not reduced (it only absorbed 4)
14th hit: Def. takes 1 dmg (current armour is 4), armour not reduced (4 before + 4 now = 8 so it is not reduced and has already absorbed 8 so 2 more and it is reduced again)
15th hit: Def. takes 1 dmg (current armour is 4), armour reduced by 1 (8 before + 4 now = 12 so it is reduced and has already absorbed 2 so 8 more and it is reduced again)
16th hit: Def. takes 2 dmg (current armour is 3), armour not reduced (2 before + 3 now = 5 so it is not reduced and has already absorbed 5 so 5 more and it is reduced again)
And so on…


So even a total offence of 2 could bring down an armour of 50 if it could sit next to it and keep pounding (which is very unlikely).

The thing I like about this system is the fact that the more the armour is already damaged, the less it gets damaged by new attacks. It makes sense since when you deal more damage it means you didn't hit the armour, you hit one of the holes you've previously made in it.

Actually, a new order "Target their armour" could be created to actively target the armour. All damaged would be absorbed so it would lower armour faster but deal no other damage to the ship.

I know that it can seem complicated to keep track of all this the way I presented it but it's actually quite simple. All you have to do is keep a note of how many points have been absorbed by a ship. Count the number of times the original armour is included in this number and you know by how much the armour is currently reduced.

In example one, it would look like this on your sheet:
10
19
28
36
43
49

10 fits 4 times in 49 so you know armour is down by 4 after the 6th attack.

Alternatively, you could calculate the armour degradation as you add absorbed damage:

In example one, it would look like this on your sheet:
10 => 0, armour: -1
9
18 => 8, armour: -2
16 => 6, armour: -3
13 => 3, armour: -4
9

 

[James McMurray]

That could work for larger ships, but for smaller ones it's way too slow.

 

[Vortex]

I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean it would be to slow for small ships vs small ships or small ships vs large ships?

 

[Valarian]

I'm looking at the problem with the armour in ship combat in the 2nd Edition rules at the moment. As I understand the rules, some ships would be able to hit each other all day without causing any damage whatsoever, because of the differential between the maximum amount of damage the ship can cause and the armour of their opponent. The offence from the weapons will never exceed the value of the opponent's armour.

I'm thinking of using the following house rules:
1. Armour degrades by 1 point per weapon hit. This means that over the combat, the armour becomes less effective and remains so until repaired. If three weapons hit, then armour is reduced by 3 points. The total offence of the hits is still calculated and compared against the armour value as normal. The reduction to the armour comes in to effect after the offence damage has been resolved.
2. Beam weapons cause the beam armour damage even if the hit doesn't cause damage to the ship itself. This is to simulate the beam cutting in to the ship's armour, but not penetrating the hull.

I think that this will make starship combat more gritty, more deadly, and will avoid the situation where a ship can absorb damage all day without any effect.

 

[tneva82]

Just a thought. How would adding simple d20 added to offense value help the issue? Should be able to allow fighters atleast be able to knock out other fighters with good hit(which fits the background information. You don't see delta-V survive many hits from starfury and even with above mentioned degration system that's what it would take in game...). Not sure would it do anything meaningfull to fighters vs big ships(haven't checked damage value vs armour values lately) but atleast fighter vs fighter combat should be bit more workable.

 

[Valarian]

A Starfury vs. Delta-V is a single hit kill:
Starfury hits the Delta-V: 12 offence vs 7 armour = 5 damage vs. 4 Structural Spaces = BOOM!

Even a Delta-V2 model can only take a couple of hits, and is probably not a threat after the first (best case: no weapons, worst case: pilot dead).
Starfury hits the Delta-V2: 12 offence vs 9 armour = 3 damage vs. 6 Structural Spaces = OUCH!
Starfury hits the Delta-V2 again: 12 offence vs 9 armour = 3 damage vs. remaining 3 Structural Spaces = BOOM!

However, it takes several Delta-V fighters working in a wing to even scratch a Starfury:
1x Delta-V = 4 offence vs Armour 14 = no damage
4 x Delta-V = 4+2+2+2 = 10 offence vs Armour 14 = no damage
6 x Delta-V = 4+2+2+2+2+2 = 14 offence vs Armour 14 = no damage
only when you get to a wing of 7 or more Delta-V fighters can the wing hurt a Starfury.

Delta-V2 fighters take a few less in concert to hurt a Starfury:
1 x Delta-V2 = (7+1) = 8 offence vs Armour 14 = no damage
2 x Delta-V2 = (7+1)+(3+1) = 12 offence vs Armour 14 = no damage
3 x Delta-V2 = (7+1)+(3+1)+(3+1) = 16 offence vs Armour 14 = 2 damage

Using armour degradation rules each hit would reduce the armour by 1, so even a single Delta-V can start to hurt a Starfury if it hits often enough and avoids getting killed.

1st hit: Offence 4 vs Armour 14 = no damage
2nd hit: Offence 4 vs Armour 13 = no damage
and so on ...

If attacked by a wing of 4 Delta-V fighters, then the armour on the Starfury gets reduced by each hit in the barrage (i.e. by 4). Count each weapon description as a single weapon ... so linked and array weapons only count as a single hit.

1st hit by 4 x Delta-V = 4+2+2+2 = 10 offence vs 14 armour = no damage
2nd hit by 4 x Delta-V = 4+2+2+2 = 10 offence vs 10 armour = no damage
3rd hit by 4 x Delta-V = 4+2+2+2 = 10 offence vs 6 armour = 4 damage vs 6 Structural Spaces = OUCH!

 

[tneva82]

1st hit by 4 x Delta-V = 4+2+2+2 = 10 offence vs 14 armour = no damage
2nd hit by 4 x Delta-V = 4+2+2+2 = 10 offence vs 10 armour = no damage
3rd hit by 4 x Delta-V = 4+2+2+2 = 10 offence vs 6 armour = 4 damage vs 6 Structural Spaces = OUCH!

So it's ouch(not even dead) after 12 hits...Not exactly fitting to background...Those starfuries aren't some uber tough fighters capable of surviving lots of hits...

 

[Valarian]

The way the stats run in the game, the Starfuries seem to be immune to most of the weapons from other fighters, except when the fighters gang up on them. That's the way they've been written. Only capital ship weapons seem to be capable of an immediate kill on a 'fury. At least with some sort of armour degradation, there's a chance of eventually doing damage. It's either that or start redesigning the ships in the game.