Should we bin the PL system in VAS

[Reaverman]

Historical Battles dont use it, and you cant play a balanced game in either friendly or tourney battle. Should we replace the PL system in VAS, with a point system.

As before, if you are gonna vote, post ya reason why

 

[Reaverman]

I think using points for historical games, will make one off battles and tourneys more balanced.

 

[Chernobyl]

Well, I'm of two minds now, so I'm not going to vote at the moment. I like the PL system for its ease of use, but I agree there's some obvious problems. example, at the moment, I can't see a justifiable reason NOT to take an Iowa class over the other War choices in the USN, when playing a 1-off or tournament game. There's plenty of them (4!) and they're clearly better than the rest of the War choices.

Chern

 

[boom_huh]

I like the PL system but in Vas it's so bad it need a complete rethink

 

[Leadman]

I haven't voted either. I would like to see a combination of the PL system and points. Points would be used within each PL. The PL level could then be used to apply a modifier to each PL class. I.E. if the Raid PL is selected, ships chosen from War would have thier points modified by x1.5, and those chosen from Patrol by x.75.

Dannie

 

[Reaverman]

I like the PL system but in Vas it's so bad it need a complete rethink

In ACTA, the PL system really works. Unfortunately, its more a problem than a solution.

 

[Poi]

Points is the only way to go. With PL, most fleets have a real choice of just one. For example, the Soviets will almost always choose a Sovietsky Soyuz at War, Kronstadt at Battle, Gangut at Raid, Chapaev at Skirmish and Tashkent at Patrol.

 

[resQscooter]

I agree with Chernobyl... the only thing that would keep someone from using an Iowa would be a sense of fair play. At war level the other combatants don't have much choice. I'm not much into tourneys any more so friendly games would be what I do mostly.

Perhaps adding a stipulation that a minimum amount of points should be spent on your chosen priority level thus limiting over the top antagonist. Maybe it is skewd at lower FAP games. Has anyone tried with say 7 points? Or even 10? Would this make a differnce?

I think the PL system is genius but perhaps needs a bit of tweaking.

 

[Poi]

Changing the number of FAP doesn't change the availablity of game busters like Yamato and Iowa.

For example, lets play 10 points of Raid, I'll take 2 Yamatos, while you struggle with the RN ships getting blown up one a turn, whilst you tickle me.

 

[resQscooter]

WARNING- EXTREME EXAMPLE

For example, lets play 10 points of Raid, I'll take 2 Yamatos, while you struggle with the RN ships getting blown up one a turn, whilst you tickle me.

I wouldn't mind running accros Yamato and Musashi with 60 J/K/N type destroyers :wink:

 

[resQscooter]

I have no experience with ACTA or Babylon 5 or real WW2 naval combat. Why is it exactly that the PL system works in ACTA but not in VaS? Is it due to the fact that the ACTA combatants are based on fiction as opposed reality? And if so then should they not stick to the "reality" of that fiction? Maybe a point system is the way to go in VaS.

 

[Bob Hume]

I think a point system would be better as well.

 

[Court Jester]

I think points can work and instead of making them in the hundreds make the point quite low. Say 12 points... 15 points... instead of 235 points or whatever.

I think this would mirror the PL quite well but give much better balance to games.

You can start off by taking each PL as it stands right now and assigning a points value and picking a ship at each PL that represents the standard for that level. Then reduce or increase the points based on how a ships perform at their level.

 

[Court Jester]

Although if they keep the PL system Mongoose really needs to look at re-balancing them...

How is this ship the Russian Gangut in ANY WAY balanced compaired to other raid level ships...

Lets look at the USN Brooklyn-class

So we have 4 AD that are TL and Weak with one DD each Vs the Russians 12 AD each with 2DD... not to mention the Russians better armour and almost double the damage points coupled with better Secondary armament and more AAA AD. Yes the Yank can move a touch faster and is better at turning but the is no way near as useful with the wide arc turrets have in VaS.

Any how...

I'll still play it however it works out...

 

[Poi]

I wouldn't mind running accros Yamato and Musashi with 60 J/K/N type destroyers :wink:

I would mind. 10 points of Raid will get you 30 destroyers, not 60.

 

[indierockclimber]

haha court jester, I was just reading your bailed out crew thread on the FOW gallery before immediately heading to this specific thread. Just thought that was sort of worth pointing out

Anyways, I haven't picked up the rules yet, but I play only friendly games so I can't imagine the PL ever being a problem... but for tournament play it does sound like it could use some tweaking.

 

[resQscooter]

yeah, you right... my bad

 

[Burger]

Points 4tw in VAS.
ACTA is fine with PLs because the ships can be tweaked to be balanced... VAS must maintain "historical accuracy" so they can't.

 

[Court Jester]

I was thinking about assigning points...

Start with a simple PL... Raid.

And then assign each PL a points value based on the Raid levels.

Patrol - 4
Skirmish - 6
Raid - 12
Battle - 24
War - 48

Then simply look at each PL and decide what is the standard and what needs to be increased or decreased. Also the points shown here are almost similar to the average Damage points of the ships at their PL's... odd but helpful for helping balance the fleets.

Additionally you can keep the PL's and when you organise a game you set a points limit as well as a PL. And any ship with a PL higher than the game costs 50% more. Or, the more simple, you cannot take any ships higher than one level above the games PL.

Using this lowed points value system avoids the problems of ship costing 610 points and ship B costing 600 points by lowering the values to an extent where a 1 point difference is enough to make a difference, especially when you have 4 point or lower ships.

Any how I'm off to bed...

 

[Poi]

I'll still play it however it works out...

Glad to hear it, as I'll be using one against you tonight.