Shooting at fieldguns

[hithero]

Are there any rules for tank guns shooting at and destroying crewed AT guns or can you only target the crew?

 

[Sgt. Scream]

First of you don't need to target a unit nor you need to target a model. You create a FireZone in which you affect everything catched in it.
To speak ruleswise: No. The Field guns don't have stats, therefore you cannot allocate damage to them (i.e. target them directly).

Honestly: I'd create a house rule for that. The Gun Shield provides you with cover and you can "abandon" field guns. So why shouldn't you as well be able to target them?

 

[hithero]

As I've just recently bought a couple of AT guns I've been looking at their rules and am wondering if they are going to be of any use at all. Rightly or wrongly, I've alway's thought of AT guns of hiding in cover under camoflage waiting for an oppotunity to take out armour by surprise and this is not possible at all within the rules.

1) Models can't hide
2) AT guns are slow and therefore cannot take reaction shots.

This means that a tank currently out of sight by say, making sure a building is blocking line of sight to an AT gun it shouldn't be able to see.

If the tank could shoot at the gun itself it would almost certainly be destroyed, preventing any retalitory fire - maybe its best if the gun can't be targeted?

 

[weasel_fierce]

I have no idea why AT guns cant take reaction shots. As long as the target is within the frnt 45 degrees or so.

Heres a simple fix though. Hidden deployment. AT guns were usually camouflaged, and anything so close to the frontlines as our gaming tables depict (within effective rifle range.. 300 yards or so) would be damn well hidden (or it'd be dead).

Write down which terrain features contain any hidden troops and suddenly those Panzers need to tread a lot more carefull

 

[Rabidchild]

I'm concerned about two things with the AT guns:

1) Gun is in the open next to a hill/building. The crew are behind said hill/building and so can't be shot at. If a tank reveals itself they take their first action to move one guy to the gun and second to fire. If return fire kills him, the rest of the crew are still safe. Rinse, repeat.

1a) Proposed alternative: Either make stats for the gun, so if left behind it can be destroyed, this would also help to represent the gun-shield as it would soak up at least one shooting die (generally the highest, no less!) Or allow it to ignore its Slow trait if more crew are touching it to encourage the unit to remain with the gun.

2) The "Tracks/x" trait allows for (admittedly less accurate) pop-out attacks. So the tank never has to reveal itself to fixed position AT assets. I realize the game never makes things this simple, but still. I would actually like the "Tracks/x" trait better if it didn't allow shooting, but was a little faster. This way it would be more like a "full speed ahead" rather than allowing it to pop-out.

2c) Proposed alternative: Only allow tanks with gun-stabilizers to fire while using the "Tracks/x" trait. All others have to use an action to move and another to shoot.

 

[Foxmeister]

2) The "Tracks/x" trait allows for (admittedly less accurate) pop-out attacks. So the tank never has to reveal itself to fixed position AT assets. I realize the game never makes things this simple, but still. I would actually like the "Tracks/x" trait better if it didn't allow shooting, but was a little faster. This way it would be more like a "full speed ahead" rather than allowing it to pop-out.

2c) Proposed alternative: Only allow tanks with gun-stabilizers to fire while using the "Tracks/x" trait. All others have to use an action to move and another to shoot.

That would render "Tracks/x" rather redundant as a trait for the vast majority of AFVs - given that you have to perform a "Ready" action prior to a "Tracks/x" move, if you can't shoot you might just as well make two normal move actions as in many cases you'd be able to move further (e.g the Churchill).

Given that WWII-era stabilizers were pretty uncommon, and not particularly effective either (or so I've been led to believe), I'd rather see "Stabilizers" as a trait which perhaps gave some sort of benefit if they were to be represented at all in the game.

Regards,

Dave

 

[hithero]

Also if you only have 1 soldier manning the gun, he will probably be out of sight from a frontal attack and so can't be a target anyway. And is there anything preventing the other 2 crew shooting with their smg's or rifles while the lone crewman fires the gun?

Maybe the AT gun should only have the Slow Trait if there is only 1 operator for the gun?

 

[Laffe]

Hm... I would allow someone to fire at the gun crew, even if they only can see the gun (they are bound to be there somewhere). Tanks often used high explosive against guns anyway, since hitting the actual gun with an AP round was much harder than taking out the crew with shrapnel.

Giving field and AT guns the slow rule if there only one crew left is a good idea; crews were often trained to fire at a high rate. Under ideal circumstances a well-trained 88 crew could fire 15 shots a minute!

I too, am worried about the survivability of AT guns. But I have to play some more games to make up my mind.