Ship Values

[scorpioni]

I remembered a thread once where the different armageddon ships were discussed and I recall someone using calculated point values to determine the Adira was, at the time, the best Armageddon ship.

Now my question: What program did he use to obtain those values? I can only find CombatSim in the Player Resources but that's a tool to help you ease on the dierolls in battles.

Can anyone help me?

 

[Triggy]

If you search out for threads started by me then you should find it.

I've also explained the procedure but suffice to say it isn't a computer programme and it takes about a page of A4 to explain!

 

[scorpioni]

ok
I'll check it out

thx

 

[scorpioni]

I found the thread you mentioned:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21098&highlight=values

Only... the link to the real goodies (I presume) in the first post is dead...
When you talk about 'not a computer program' I presume you mean an excell sheet? I made something similar for weapons but find it hard to give values to traits, damage, crew,... and the like..

Any advice?[/url]

 

[Triggy]

I found the thread you mentioned:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=21098&highlight=values

Only... the link to the real goodies (I presume) in the first post is dead...
When you talk about 'not a computer program' I presume you mean an excell sheet? I made something similar for weapons but find it hard to give values to traits, damage, crew,... and the like..

Any advice?[/url]

Shame the original thread's not there.

Nope it's not an Excel sheet - it's all done quickly on a calculator and now takes about 15 seconds per ship to do.

An example (without any fiddly detail that can sometimes come into play) would be a Chronos Frigate:

Damage 16 (lower value of Damage and Crew with roughly normal thresholds), add 4.0 for the Interceptors then multiply the lot by 13/12 also for the Interceptors, then multiply this by 4/3 for the Hull 6 giving a "toughness" of 28.8889.

For the weapons, the Railgun would have 4 (Attack Dice) muliplied by 0.5 for being AP, multiplied by 13/7 for being Double Damage (you do twice the damage but only one chance of the critical), divide by 13/12 for being interceptable, multiply by 5/4 for being Turreted and mulitply by 15/23 (15/(15+8)) for range giving 2.7950. The Pulse Cannon have 60/9 for the AD (18/9 for Front, 40/9 for Port/Starboard and 2/9 for Aft), multiplied by 0.5 for Twin-Linked, divided by 13/12 for being interceptable, multiply by 12/20 for range giving 1.8462 and a combined weapons total of 4.6412.

Multiply the weapons by the toughness and that gives 134.0778. A slight adjustment for the weapons to toughness ratio (the higher the ratio of weapons, the more valuable a ship is), divide by 40, log it with a base of 3 and add 1. In this case it comes out with a value of about 2.05, where a typical Skirmish PL ship has a value of 2: pretty close really.

If you folks think I've left some more minor things out, I sure have but that's not the issue here, I'm just giving a brief example!

 

[Chernobyl]

/O'Neill

Yaaaaa! English, Carter! English!

/O'Neill

 

[scorpioni]

/me faints That's a LOT of info in that post triggy

Thx for your input

You don't happen to have a list of all those multipliers now don't you?
for example:

Thoughness:
Interceptors: x (2x Interceptor Value) x 13/12
Hull 6: x 4/3
Hull 5: ??
...
Dodge:....

Weapons:
Twin-linked:
Carrier 1 / 2 / 3 / ... : .....



Any further help would be appreciated
How would you value onboard flights?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Triggy, you maths-maniac! Gamer's intuition is worth more than your formulae and probabilities! We're going to have a little talk next week, you and I... :wink:

 

[Voronesh]

Yer but it fun to calc that stuff and get pointers just how broken or useless a ship actually is ^^.

 

[scorpioni]

Yeah, and I'm writing a Dilgar guide and it would be nice to see in numbers just how much the hulls have improved this edition.

 

[Triggy]

Yer but it fun to calc that stuff and get pointers just how broken or useless a ship actually is ^^.

It helps (particularly so you don't miss an overly or under powered ship), but is not the end of the story, as context is worth a lot and you can't take every combination into account.

A list of everything....

Give me some time and I'll try to oblige you, but it is a long list and the way it works isn't simple. BTW, Hull 5 is x 1

 

[scorpioni]

I'll be a young grasshopper then

/me bows to master triggy and waits impatiently ^^

 

[thehod]

I wanna know how the Trakk stands

 

[Zeru]

I would love to know how the Blue Star fairs under those equations. As people have stated them being above a patrol level ship.

 

[noobdelux]

triggy, are you telling me you LOST it? : P

 

[Voronesh]

Yes correct, context is everything. But if a ship feels overly strong by many gamers and its numbers also come up as more than just above average, it sure is interesting.

BTW Id love to run a statistical T-test on those numbers. For each different pl level but prolly not broken up by fleet list, as samples would be prolly a little low in some fleets (Gaim haha).

But i could calc the bigger fleets (the big 4), then once each lvl for the full range of ships, calc individual fleets relative to the mean lvl power of all ships.

Would be great to see how many ships are statisticwise significantly better than others. (doesnt mean anything if the sample batch is large enough half a point can be significant ^^).

 

[Jhary]

Is there any way to get a list of the complet formular with all Multipliers?

Woud be fun to see how mutch a ship is worth in points.

 

[scorpioni]

Triggy is working on it

I'm just as impatient as you

 

[Triggy]

triggy, are you telling me you LOST it? : P

Nope, but it has been refined for 2nd ed. and I'll have to write it out again in a legible format

 

[scorpioni]

mmmm can't wait