SylvrDragon
Mongoose
If you were playing a game with no ISD restrictions which would you choose and why?
Shadow Omega or Warlock?
- Thread starter SylvrDragon
- Start date
Well, they have the same speed, same turn rate and same hull. TIE
One could argue that the T-bolts are "better" than Auroras... but atleast with the Worlock you have diversity in case you need that fighter to fighter edge. WORLOCK
The Worlock has a Command bonus... so points for that. Better intercepters... more points. The only thing the Omega has is self repair (1D6... not great) and a flight computer which should come in handy when the structure starts going down slower than crew casulties (because of self repair). If anything, their special abilities are neck and neck. TIE
The Worlock has more structure and crew... so even more points. WORLOCK
Weapons is where the whole thing falls in favor of the Worlock (looking at the stats... NOTE: I have not played with either) in my opinion. The Worlock just has so much more to bring to the table. WORLOCK
Yeah, the Omega's main weapon IS a better range, but the AD and special effects are the same. After that I don't think the hvy phasing cannon does not compeet with a laser/pulse array, missle rack and rail gun all at better ranges. Not to mention the "support" weaponry on it's side have better range than some other ships primaries. Plus, to boot, the Worlock has weapons against fighters.
To me this isn't much of a debate. As cool as the Shadow Omega is (fluff wise and in the show) the Worlock, I think, is just better suited for multiple enemies and multiple TYPES of enemies.
In case you haven't figured out yet, I voted Worlock... though popcorn is good too...[/b]
One could argue that the T-bolts are "better" than Auroras... but atleast with the Worlock you have diversity in case you need that fighter to fighter edge. WORLOCK
The Worlock has a Command bonus... so points for that. Better intercepters... more points. The only thing the Omega has is self repair (1D6... not great) and a flight computer which should come in handy when the structure starts going down slower than crew casulties (because of self repair). If anything, their special abilities are neck and neck. TIE
The Worlock has more structure and crew... so even more points. WORLOCK
Weapons is where the whole thing falls in favor of the Worlock (looking at the stats... NOTE: I have not played with either) in my opinion. The Worlock just has so much more to bring to the table. WORLOCK
Yeah, the Omega's main weapon IS a better range, but the AD and special effects are the same. After that I don't think the hvy phasing cannon does not compeet with a laser/pulse array, missle rack and rail gun all at better ranges. Not to mention the "support" weaponry on it's side have better range than some other ships primaries. Plus, to boot, the Worlock has weapons against fighters.
To me this isn't much of a debate. As cool as the Shadow Omega is (fluff wise and in the show) the Worlock, I think, is just better suited for multiple enemies and multiple TYPES of enemies.
In case you haven't figured out yet, I voted Worlock... though popcorn is good too...[/b]
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
The Warlock is the superior ship, hands down.
The Shadow Omega is cooler.
So if you want to win, take a Warlock. If you want a cool ship, take a Shadow Omega.
The Shadow Omega is cooler.
So if you want to win, take a Warlock. If you want a cool ship, take a Shadow Omega.
In one-off games, the Warlock is my favourite ship. However in campaigns the self-repair trait of the Shadow Omega means that it recovers all damage between battles without needing to spend RR points. This is a fairly decent advantage if you can field a big ship in every game without having to ever spend points on repairing it.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Need to spend RR to get your crew back, though. Even the flight computer won't run the ship without a few blokes to tell it what to kill...
MustEatBrains
Mongoose
Shadow Omega, simply because it looks great and had that nice battle scene in the series.
SylvrDragon
Mongoose
Lord David the Denied said:
For note. I beat the crap out of my last opponent with a Shadow Omega, so they do win quite nicely. I've never had a Worlock perform in a satisying manner; meaning it's done no damage and died 3-4 turns into the game.
Abraxas said:
Have you actually read the stats? The Omega's beam has 2 more AD than the Worlocks and it's phase cannon blows the Worlocks laser/pulse arrays out of the water. The Worlock does still come out on top, if even not by too much, due to its missiles. As for taking on more ships...I don't mean to sound mean, but what are you thinking? Do you honestly think the arrays on the sides of the Worloc can deal more damage than the arrays on the sides of the Omega? The Omegas side arrays are 150% more powerful than the Worlocks, so unlike the Worlock an Omega can deal damage to ships no matter what arc they're in. Also, the OMega has mini-beam weapons on thwe side and those make a mockery of fighters and incterceptors. The only debate fo rme between the ships is wether I want a missile launcher or a 6 AD beam.
Lord David the Denied said:
But that still means it's cheaper due to only having to repair crits and crew. Also note that crew is cheaper to replace than damage, so of the two I'd rather deal with crew than damage.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
The Warlock's weapons are generally longer-ranged than the Shadow Omega's, though. Only the molecular slicer beam outranges the Warlock's main weapons.
The Warlock can sling a lot more dice to the front than the Shadow Omega and only lags a little behind in the other arcs.
The Shadow Omega is nice, but the Warlock is nicer.
The Warlock can sling a lot more dice to the front than the Shadow Omega and only lags a little behind in the other arcs.
The Shadow Omega is nice, but the Warlock is nicer.
SylvrDragon said:
Yes, I have read the stats. According to the TOURNEY stats that Shadow Omega's Molecular Slicer is: 35"; 6 AD; B, SAP, TD. The Worlocks Hvy Particle Cannon is: 30"; 6 AD; B, SAP, TD. Like I said, aside from the 5" difference both weapons are the same.
SylvrDragon said:
Which was the point I was making. The addition of Missles and Rail Guns overcome the Phasing cannons. Thank you for proving my point.
SylvrDragon said:
Don't worry, your not being rude :lol: .
I never said the laser/pulse array was better. I did say it had better range, which it does... nearly DOUBLE that of the Shadow Omega. Yes, the Lt Molecular Slicer is a better weapon (in terms of actual power) but the Worlock still has the better range, and not by just a mear 5" either (like the ships' primary weapons).
Well, I guess the best thing to do would be to play a one off game against an opponet (not just yourself). C'mon, you Europeans play this game every day... can someone halp us out? :lol:
Locutus9956
Mongoose
Well I accidentally voted Shaodw Omega, misclicked. So count one less there and one more for the Warlock 
.
As for why the Warlock simply outclasses the Shadow omega in damage potential and survivability (using either SFoS or tourney stats). The Shadow Omega is cool for its fluffyness and for some special scenarios but the Warlock is frankly a better ship. End of story
.As for why the Warlock simply outclasses the Shadow omega in damage potential and survivability (using either SFoS or tourney stats). The Shadow Omega is cool for its fluffyness and for some special scenarios but the Warlock is frankly a better ship. End of story
Slightly Norse John
Mongoose
I find it largely a matter of horses for courses. The Warlock is more of a brawler- the missiles and railguns give her a significant extra damage capacity, the LPAs are at least adequate; the massive boresight on the Shadow Omega makes it a better sniper and standoff bombardment ship, but less good in a rough and tumble.
Both are very expensive units, and that really settles it for me. A War point is just too much to spend on a specialist unit, most of the time; for that you want a ship you can take a few risks with, go into the middle of the fight. I'd take the Warlock in most circumstances- that is to say, against most opponents. The only time I'd go with the Shadow Omega is against a force that couldn't mob me, and I could get a nice long, slow approach wth lots of chances to boresight. Abbai, Narn, Vorlons really. Certainly not against ISA.
The Tourney Warlock is a very nasty piece of kit; a shade too heavily upgraded for my liking. I reckon they overdid it. The range, or the extra dice, but not both.
Both are very expensive units, and that really settles it for me. A War point is just too much to spend on a specialist unit, most of the time; for that you want a ship you can take a few risks with, go into the middle of the fight. I'd take the Warlock in most circumstances- that is to say, against most opponents. The only time I'd go with the Shadow Omega is against a force that couldn't mob me, and I could get a nice long, slow approach wth lots of chances to boresight. Abbai, Narn, Vorlons really. Certainly not against ISA.
The Tourney Warlock is a very nasty piece of kit; a shade too heavily upgraded for my liking. I reckon they overdid it. The range, or the extra dice, but not both.
Shadow Queen
Mongoose
Warlock wins hands down.
Why??
Well you cant have a shadow omega called EAS Nightcrawler.
Why??
Well you cant have a shadow omega called EAS Nightcrawler.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Shadow Queen said:
Why can't you? :?
SylvrDragon
Mongoose
I still don't see how you guys view the ships as you do. The Shadow Omega is clearlya brawler, since it's secondary weapons have short range and can fire in all directions thus making it ideal for going straight down the enemies throat. While the Warlock has long ragned weapons, it does have 2 30" range weapons and a 15" battery, thus making it very capable of staying just out of reach while still being able to shred opponents.
In the end, I have decided on the Warlock. It's more available in games, has more punch in it's forward arc, which makes it great for punching through enemy lines, and the missile launcher give it more ranged punch and more versatility.
In the end, I have decided on the Warlock. It's more available in games, has more punch in it's forward arc, which makes it great for punching through enemy lines, and the missile launcher give it more ranged punch and more versatility.
SylvrDragon said:
I don't know what stats you are looking at but the Worlock can shoot in every direction too. In fact, I would venture that the Worlock has more fire power in it's rear arc, not to mention the anti-fighter particle beams which are turtted.
I'm not trying to be argumentative... I just want to know if we are all looking at the same stats.
SylvrDragon said:
[sarcasm]
I am glad you have come to your sences.
[/sarcasm]
:lol:
The Shadow Omega is a great sniper, and it regenerate is super, especialy in campains! But it is limited in servicability (one year only) and I don't like the unearthy look about it.
Now the warlock is a face to face fighter, especially when you give it Heavy missiles. + It can make far better use of it's Advanced jumpt point capeability. Jump in right behind the foe, move and fire all weapons, while staying out of the lethal front arcs of enemy fleets The Shadow Omega is wasted on this tacitc.
For me it is the Warlock, it always has been the Warlock and It will always remain the Warlock!!!! 8)
Now the warlock is a face to face fighter, especially when you give it Heavy missiles. + It can make far better use of it's Advanced jumpt point capeability. Jump in right behind the foe, move and fire all weapons, while staying out of the lethal front arcs of enemy fleets
The Shadow Omega is wasted on this tacitc.For me it is the Warlock, it always has been the Warlock and It will always remain the Warlock!!!! 8)
I always hated the ISDs.
Too many of the ships in the game can't be fielded together. I suppose if we had every varient of every ship so that fleets were fuller at different dates maybe. As is I find them an unrealistic burden that adds nothing to the games. How do Dilgar fight anything? Vorlons/Shadows can't be used against the newer ships. Eh, just doesn't appeal to me. This isn't like a WWII game were we have years of battles and scores of units to choose from. I mean every campaign is non-canon from the get go, so who cares if someone out there kept a few shadow omegas for the inevitabel fall of the traitor Sheridan's puppet government. It's not like the EA dropped shadow tech...the whole new fleet is riddled with it.
Ripple
Too many of the ships in the game can't be fielded together. I suppose if we had every varient of every ship so that fleets were fuller at different dates maybe. As is I find them an unrealistic burden that adds nothing to the games. How do Dilgar fight anything? Vorlons/Shadows can't be used against the newer ships. Eh, just doesn't appeal to me. This isn't like a WWII game were we have years of battles and scores of units to choose from. I mean every campaign is non-canon from the get go, so who cares if someone out there kept a few shadow omegas for the inevitabel fall of the traitor Sheridan's puppet government. It's not like the EA dropped shadow tech...the whole new fleet is riddled with it.
Ripple
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Nobody's making you use the in-service dates, dude. I'd use them just to make the game more "realistic" but if you want to play what-if games there's no stopping you. That's what the Dilgar fleet is for, really...
Oh not claiming anyone is making me use ISDs, don't get me wrong. Just commenting given folks are using the ISD of the Shadow Omega as part of why one is better than the other. Seems strange that one of the most frequently ignored rules is a factor in deciding between the two, but for folks who do use the ISDs I can see why it would be an issue.
Ripple
Ripple
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