SF-ACTA future(TNG-Voyager) ideas?

[retzlaffmd]

Has anyone seen, not neccesarily on this forum, anyone doing lists of ST-TNG era ships for SFB/SF-ACTA? I've been kicking around some ideas myself, with these ideas in mind:

1:ship stats arre right out of the SF-ACTA book, just what TNG-era ships are equivalent to their TOS/General War-era ships

2:the concept that all forces & technologies advanced at roughly the same rate, so a Burke-equivalent from TNG would have the same stats as a Burke

3:no TNG-era vs TOS-era battles, and only ship mini's for ships used in both eras would cross over between games... like the K'Tinga class

And please let me know if discussions like this are not allowed here, I don't want any of us to get in any legel trouble over this...

 

[archon96]

All I know is that the ships youre talking about are outside of the license with paramount and dont get talked about in regards to these games. Damn copyright laws

 

[billclo]

Please read this so you will understand what can and cannot be discussed on the official Mongoose forum concerning Star Trek, etc. Thank you.

http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=49837

 

[Rambler]

retzlaffmd, welcome to the forums. As you can see you have hit a hot button topic. In general your concept of a regardless what era you play a cruiser is a cruiser and a frigate is a frigate is sound and if that is what you want to do using say hot wheels with ACTASF stats. What you do around your own gaming table with your friends is is fine. What we can not do is to suggest alternate models or debate which ship best represents another kind of ship.

So my suuggestion is you know your gaming group best you guys keep any mods you do in house so to speak and good luck.

 

[retzlaffmd]

Thanks, guys, but I had no intention of discussing it here, just asking if anyone had seen this on other forums or sites...

 

[Jean]

retzlaffmd, sorry, but they cannot tell you the answer to your question. Anyone who has posted such things is violating Paramount's copyrights and we are supposed to report those when they come to our attention. (In fact, if they report such sites to ADB, they earn awards as pirate hunters on our Wall of Honor.)

Think of it this way -- would you ask someone where to buy a term paper in front of the teacher?

 

[H]

retzlaffmd, sorry, but they cannot tell you the answer to your question. Anyone who has posted such things is violating Paramount's copyrights and we are supposed to report those when they come to our attention. (In fact, if they report such sites to ADB, they earn awards as pirate hunters on our Wall of Honor.)

Think of it this way -- would you ask someone where to buy a term paper in front of the teacher?

intriguing, so to discuss a later incarnation of the universe, not related specifically to the sfu is a violation of copyright, so if I chatted about it to the bloke in the canteen, I could be in trouble.
Thats one damn strong copyright!
I bet John Terry and Rio Ferdinand talk about it all the time...

 

[McKinstry]

retzlaffmd, sorry, but they cannot tell you the answer to your question. Anyone who has posted such things is violating Paramount's copyrights and we are supposed to report those when they come to our attention. (In fact, if they report such sites to ADB, they earn awards as pirate hunters on our Wall of Honor.)

Think of it this way -- would you ask someone where to buy a term paper in front of the teacher?

intriguing, so to discuss a later incarnation of the universe, not related specifically to the sfu is a violation of copyright, so if I chatted about it to the bloke in the canteen, I could be in trouble.
Thats one damn strong copyright!
I bet John Terry and Rio Ferdinand talk about it all the time...

You have no risk. To dicuss it on a forum owned and operated by a holder of a very limited copyright does subject that holder (in this case ADB and their partner Mongoose) to risk thus they protect themselves and their license. Individuals are free to discuss as they wish but to do it on a commercial website puts the owner, not the individual, potentially at the mercy of Paramount's vast team of IP enforcers.

 

[H]

retzlaffmd, sorry, but they cannot tell you the answer to your question. Anyone who has posted such things is violating Paramount's copyrights and we are supposed to report those when they come to our attention. (In fact, if they report such sites to ADB, they earn awards as pirate hunters on our Wall of Honor.)

Think of it this way -- would you ask someone where to buy a term paper in front of the teacher?

intriguing, so to discuss a later incarnation of the universe, not related specifically to the sfu is a violation of copyright, so if I chatted about it to the bloke in the canteen, I could be in trouble.
Thats one damn strong copyright!
I bet John Terry and Rio Ferdinand talk about it all the time...

You have no risk. To dicuss it on a forum owned and operated by a holder of a very limited copyright does subject that holder (in this case ADB and their partner Mongoose) to risk thus they protect themselves and their license. Individuals are free to discuss as they wish but to do it on a commercial website puts the owner, not the individual, potentially at the mercy of Paramount's vast team of IP enforcers.

what happened to the usual diclaimer of "the views of people on this forum, are not those of the company, and are in no way endorsed" etc etc.

seems very draconian.

 

[Rambler]

what happened to the usual diclaimer of "the views of people on this forum, are not those of the company, and are in no way endorsed" etc etc.

seems very draconian.

Because that is not legally defendable any more. If a person has a few friends over and those friends plot a kidnapping in front of him. Even if he did not participate in anyway shape or fashion by failing to report that to the police he is now guilty by association. Why would him reciting a disclaimer or even getting his friends to sign it resolve him of guilt?

You think things are draconic now wait until Wizkids really ratchets pressure up on Paramount to regain control of a IP that they paid a lot of money for.

 

[H]

yeah... slightly different situations really.
however, are you a lawyer? to advise what is legally defensible.
common sense states if you are witness to a discussion of a murder you are by association guilty. Me saying, I like a D'Deridex on an open forum is a bit less life and death. Please note, I merely said i like a ship I made no connection with any game rules

 

[Ben2]

As ACTA:SFU gets carried in more stores and players find themselves with the choice of buying random collectable miniatures boxes with a very limited number of ships, no set scale, a mish mash from various periods of Star Trek and with the randomness of Chinese factory painting or Starline 2500 where it's one scale, one period (Old School), you know exactly what you're buying and while you have to paint it yourself, a lot of people are very into the painting side of miniatures. While I think the Fleet Captains board game is a good product (though they also had some miniature teething problems) I think the Heroclix is a bit shoddy and badly let down by the lack of any sort of scale.

ACTA:SFU will cannabalise some Star Trek wargaming fan dollars from Wizkids. They are different but overlapping markets (Wizkids aim at the collectors side, Starline at the craft and painting side, a lot of wargamers do both). Wizkids will have two options, make a better product, or lean on Paramount to get rid of Starline. ADB think they'll probably choose the latter (it's certainly the path of least resistance and hence the more profitable one). The Wizkids products have also been promoted on the CBS site, Startrek.com, so cross promotion is something going on as part of that licence, which Paramount are making money off, as oppose to the ADB licence, which they aren't.

Also, Matt has asked us to abide by the restrictions on Star Trek discussions that ADB adhere to on their forums here, and as it is his forum it would be ungentlemanly to violate his wishes.

There are certainly plenty of forums not associated with Mongoose or ADB you could have such discussions on (Dakka, Warseer, Blood of Kittens, Starship News, etc) so the restrictions aren't too onerous. You may get reported to Paramount, but unless you are profiting from the IP by making bootleg casts or copying IP to make minis or selling the rules, then it's unlikely Paramount will do anything, particularly whatever you come up with will increase sales of the Wizkids stuff.

 

[archon96]

Im not to sure about this but i think as long as ADB doesnt violate its contract then paramount cant pull the plug. and wiz kids can suck it. I bought into the mech warrior line and was happy until they discontinued the promotional mechs and went the wizards way for tournament rules by making certain pieces no longer usable in tournament play. This is a much more stable gaming platform and after my initial investment I dont need to keep sinking cash into it to stay tournament legal.

 

[Ben2]

It's the difference between the Magic:The Gathering business model and a more standard wargames/rpg one.

If ADB play be the rules, then they have nothing to worry about.

Regarding tournaments, having only one tournament ship per race like SFB Module T assures great balance, but isn't as interesting as choosing a fleet. Perfect tournament balance is not achievable, but you can get close.

Constant retconning as is seen in some card games means expansions aren't properly balanced, having a points system helps a lot as more powerful units cost more and thus you can have less of them (which is completely different to Magic), but I don't believe most wargames will achieve the zen like balance pursued by tournament players (who alternate between that quixotic quest and finding the most broken unit/army/fleet/deck).

 

[Nerroth]

Technically, there could be more than one era covered by ACtA:SF; if Mongoose decide to expand into the Early Years, or introduce X-technology (or X2-tech, if SFB Module X2 were to be published by the time such a decision were to be made).

Of course, the way in which the Star Fleet Universe handled the "dawn of warp technology" was taken along a different track to how the Franchise went with Star Trek: Enterprise; but even if WizKids can offer the NX-01, the SFU can provide a compelling take on pre-TOS starship combat in its own right.

Plus, there are literally dozens of species and empires across several settings that the SFU has all to itself, which to me at least are a key reason why the SFU is as fascinating a setting as it is. (I do hope that once the first "indigenous" SFU empires appear in Starline 2500 and ACtA:SF, the idea of getting into the setting for what new ships it can provide, rather than despite not getting those it can't, might become that little bit more widespread. It'll be a lot easier to talk up the likes of the Lyrans and ISC when the books and minis are there to be presented, in Mongoose terms at any rate.)


Ultimately, I don't think the risk of cross purposes between Wizkids and ADB/Mongoose is all that great, personally. Players who will only ever accept the Franchise take on things are ones who probably aren't in any great rush to go into the SFU anyway; while those who are more loyal to ADB would probably be less keen on jumping across to a game system that, ultimately, does not have the guarantee of still being around as an active concern that the SFU has.

(I think that would be a similar dynamic for the RPG side of things, too. Prime Directive may not appeal quite so much to those exclusively committed to the Franchise; but those who do get into it won't have to worry about whether or not the game's fixed-term licence will be renewed - or even pulled prematurely.)

 

[Jean]

Gentlemen, our lawyer who specializes in copyright law has advised us that we are legally responsible for what goes on on ADB's Forum and BBS and Matthew is responsible regarding the SFU here. There is no way that we can claim that we do not read these discussion boards as we obviously post here. (That is how some authors get around fanfic -- their lawyers forbid them from reading the forums lest they be sued for stealing an idea.)

As I have stated before, we must be like Caesar's wife -- if Paramount takes us to court over something that isn't dismissed immediately, then they can suck us dry to the point that we cannot afford to fight the good fight. I'm not debating the morality of it; just stating the realities of the legal system in the US.

Now this pertains to forums that Matthew, SVC, and I frequent. What you do with your friends, neighbors, fellow gamers elsewhere is between you and them, not us and you. I'm not going to appear at your gaming table (or favorite pub) and snatch away a cubical ship and smack your hand. However, our boards cannot assist you in your quest to have such a ship in your local game.

If we become aware of a site that is doing ST SSDs or statting up ST characters or ships, then we must report those sites to Paramount so that Paramount doesn't take us to court and accuse us of using our fans to circumvent our contract. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm out searching for those sites -- I have far more productive things to do with my time. However, if someone were to post the link here or to email us asking why we didn't have TNG minis when they were stated up at www TNGSSDS net, then we'd be forced to take notice.

Does that help clear things up?

As Nerroth has pointed out, there are lots of aspects of the SFU to explore and I know that Matthew and SVC are looking at some new ideas. (No, I will not tell you more -- I am such a tease ) So please, explore the broad SFU, find new empires to have quarrels with (or convoys to raid), and enjoy yourself.

 

[Ben2]

This is probably the right thread to ask, but are we ok to have a thread on favourite Original Series episode/most amusing TOS picture/gif?

All in good fun type thing.

 

[retzlaffmd]

thanks, guys, I didn't realize this was such a potential can o'worms....

 

[mechascorpio]

Yeah, the first rule of SFU Club is "Don't talk about Star Trek".

 

[Jean]

Ben2, you can chat about ST all you want, but any images must not have Paramount's IP. Sorry.