Scifi for Legend?

danskmacabre

Mongoose
I know Mongoose make Traveller, but I'm just not that keen on the Traveller game (no offense to Traveller fans :) )

But is there any chance at all of a Scifi iteration of Legend/MRQ2?
 
danskmacabre said:
I know Mongoose make Traveller, but I'm just not that keen on the Traveller game (no offense to Traveller fans :) )

But is there any chance at all of a Scifi iteration of Legend/MRQ2?

Me and Mixster was working on a Legend modern - which could be used for scifi also. We're not working on it at the moment, but if anyone is interested in helping we will probably get back to it soon.

I don't think Mongoose will make sci-fi (although they might do Modern), as it can almost only take away customer base from Traveller.. but I don't rightly know.

- Dan
 
Just tell the fans that it will not be set anywhere near the Third Imperium.

The fans who will flock to it will be those SFRPG fans who aren't interested in Traveller. There are a lot more of them than you imagine.

Besides, the following iterations would probably sell:-

- Legend Modern (Traveller doesn't have an equivalent)

- Cyberpunk of Legend: mirror shades, chrome, cybernetics and getting wired in a world ruled by data

- Dystopia of Legend: In a world where people are pieces to be ground under the machine of a cruel, impartial dictatorship, the characters are the only line of resistance left

- Victorian Legend: Something that was touched upon many years ago in Different Worlds magazine, for both RQ and Traveller, but whose time could well have come

- Four Colour Legend: The city is under terrible peril, and only the most heroic and vigilant can save the day, usually by chasing across rooftops dressed in colourful unitards, heedless of the fact that it can get rather cold at night

- Wild West of Legend: Across the pond, the fantasy dons a stetson and rides the High Plains, meeting Oriental dragons and Wendigo, P T Barnum's Manticores and Minotaurs and Manitou

- Legends After The Fall: Post-Apocalyptic legends in a world where death is cheap and gasoline is more precious than gold

- Horrors of Legend: Vampires and werewolves, and the hardy souls that hunt them

The old BRP system did, after all, give us the Ringworld and Superworld systems. Admittedly they really failed to sell, big time, but these can be marketed as modifications to the basic Legend system, to give you a sense of fun play other than the usual swords, sorcery and spells.
 
alex_greene said:
Just tell the fans that it will not be set anywhere near the Third Imperium.

The fans who will flock to it will be those SFRPG fans who aren't interested in Traveller. There are a lot more of them than you imagine.

Besides, the following iterations would probably sell:-

- Legend Modern (Traveller doesn't have an equivalent)

- Cyberpunk of Legend: mirror shades, chrome, cybernetics and getting wired in a world ruled by data

- Dystopia of Legend: In a world where people are pieces to be ground under the machine of a cruel, impartial dictatorship, the characters are the only line of resistance left

- Victorian Legend: Something that was touched upon many years ago in Different Worlds magazine, for both RQ and Traveller, but whose time could well have come

- Four Colour Legend: The city is under terrible peril, and only the most heroic and vigilant can save the day, usually by chasing across rooftops dressed in colourful unitards, heedless of the fact that it can get rather cold at night

- Wild West of Legend: Across the pond, the fantasy dons a stetson and rides the High Plains, meeting Oriental dragons and Wendigo, P T Barnum's Manticores and Minotaurs and Manitou

- Legends After The Fall: Post-Apocalyptic legends in a world where death is cheap and gasoline is more precious than gold

- Horrors of Legend: Vampires and werewolves, and the hardy souls that hunt them

The old BRP system did, after all, give us the Ringworld and Superworld systems. Admittedly they really failed to sell, big time, but these can be marketed as modifications to the basic Legend system, to give you a sense of fun play other than the usual swords, sorcery and spells.

Great ideas. And I'm not saying that you're wrong, but simply that Mongoose publicly has said that Traveller sells pretty well and that they will focus some attention there. Sadly if we are to see some Modern RPG from Mongoose, I think they would take the Traveller system - but I hope I'm wrong. The early stuff we did for RQ Modern showed that (new) Combat Manoeuvres can also fit very well in modern ranged combat.

- Dan
 
Can't blame them for playing it safe - after all, if they sink their cash into a product written by an untested author, and the product tanks (wrong market, wrong economic environment, crap product) that's them out however much cash it would have cost them to prep the product, make it and pay the distributors to haul it around the world just to sit on the shelves, gathering dust.

But you can't tell what tomorrow's market will look like based on today and yesterday, you can't find out who the next Gareth Hanrahan or John M Ford or Nigel D Findley or Justin Achilli will be unless you look at newbs once in a while, and you really can't do any exploring if your ship stays resolutely still in the harbour.
 
Yeah we should get back to working on RQ Modern. (Perhaps rename it to Urban Legend for the Lulz?).

Making a Modern system for Legend would serve as a good base to base both the Sci-Fi Expansions on (as the ranged combat maneuvres would be done), and some of the more cyberpunk-y adventures on. As extra gear, tech, magic and ways to use it all could easily be included.

Atm, I'm still thinking there should be quite a bit of CMs that make opponents need to hit the deck or take extra damage, so the opponent gets a choice when you get a CM, that could be cool and would make the fire-fight very tactical. Do I stay up, and keep firing, or do I get down.

However, for cover based shooting, the Choose Location CM might be too good.
Anyway, these were my initial thoughts on the matter.
 
Or do I duck behind cover, call my backup, get her to hack into the CCTV just behind the shooter to give me his exact position behind the barricade he's hiding behind? :)
 
Dan True said:
Me and Mixster was working on a Legend modern - which could be used for scifi also. We're not working on it at the moment, but if anyone is interested in helping we will probably get back to it soon.

~Yes that'd be very interesting to see.

I don't think Mongoose will make sci-fi (although they might do Modern), as it can almost only take away customer base from Traveller.. but I don't rightly know.
- Dan
I see your point and I didn't seriously think they would. but IMO Scifi is under-represented in the RPG community atm.
 
I would love to see a gritty Post apocalypic type RPG based on Legend.

Or a proper Scifi in the style of the original Spacemaster (by I.C.E.) with Psionics and so on.
 
danskmacabre said:
~Yes that'd be very interesting to see.

We'll see if we'll get time to write more for it. The idea was a system broad enough to handle everything from 1890's Quatermain-style adventures in Africa, to Gangsters, Modern and Sci-fi. Mainly new takes on skill, perhaps some talents and new combat rules for a futuristic world. Equipment and magic would depend on setting.

- Dan
 
It's interesting...I've been thinking abut the possibilities of using Legend for SF too.

It seems inevitable that somebody will produce an SF variant.

I like the idea of a modern action movie variant called "Streets of Legend" ;)
 
Traveller is a solid SF game with a hard SF engine, but it doesn't fare that well as a fantasy game - even though it can easily be retooled for that purpose, generally nobody thinks of doing so because of the prevalence of many other fantasy engines available, including but not restricted to Legend.

Legend, on the other hand, can be set in a SF milieu as easily as it can do horror, Westerns and many other genres - and it needs no major retooling to do so. The versatility of the basic engine has already been shown by its predecessor, BRP, and its tolerance to stretching as witnessed by its incorporation into the defunct Ringworld and Superworld RPGs. I've got both; just because they tanked, it doesn't mean the systems didn't work.

The problems with Superworld arose due to an egregious lack of support for the product, and a distinctly lacklustre presence in a market which had already been cornered by systems such as Champions and of course Mutants and Masterminds - not to mention the licensed products based on the established four-colour rags. Superworld felt like the poor man's Champions, and its internal art certainly did it no favours.

And Ringworld was the victim of such unbelievably bad marketing that its failure to thrive should be held up as an exemplar in the annals of marketing failure. Priced at a hilariously exorbitant (at the time) £30, and £24 for just the one supplement The Ringworld Companion, this game was doomed, like Superworld, to obsolescence almost from its conception - as if failure has been bred into it. At least ICE's Spacemaster lasted a little better, and managed to get a few years out of the products and a good score of supplements before it faced into gaming obscurity.

So yes, I am a student of gaming history - perhaps moreso than most, because I've looked keenly at the failures as much as the successes, and so if I was looking to launch a product I'd be checking out the competition and asking the following basic questions:-

1. Do the competition have anything like this?
2. If not, have they tried and failed? (Or tried and died - I am not kidding; gaming companies have vanished for showing the slightest hesitation)
3. If so, what's the thing that really makes their product sell and sell?
4. What's the weak point - the can at the base of the stack, the bag of soft fruits at the bottom of a shopping bag full of tin cans?
5. All their hype aside, do they have people working for them who believe in their product? Who are their Wunderkinder - the ones whose presence just drives the rest along, like the recent Secrets of The Ancients?
6. Do we have Wunderkinder of our own?
7. Why the hell aren't we using them?
8. Money and pricing considerations aside, how do we get the customers to flock to our banner?
9. And once they've bought the core book, how can we maximise the population of True Believers who will buy every book and product we can make?

So.

When I talk about the possibilities of launching something like a SF product for Legend ... believe me, I know as well as the next guy what the RL consequences of failure will be. Been there, seen it, done it.

And I'd rather risk a failure than play it safe and do nothing.

However, my name is Alex Greene, not Matthew Sprange, and I'm in this armchair all the way over here, well away from the Mongoose Nerve Centre, so what can I do? :)
 
And Ringworld was the victim of such unbelievably bad marketing that its failure to thrive should be held up as an exemplar in the annals of marketing failure. Priced at a hilariously exorbitant (at the time) £30, and £24 for just the one supplement The Ringworld Companion, this game was doomed

Ringworld didn't tank due to poor marketing and price. It tanked because the media rights, which also included the RPG, were sold and Chaosium had to abandon the game shortly after the Companion came out.
 
Loz said:
And Ringworld was the victim of such unbelievably bad marketing that its failure to thrive should be held up as an exemplar in the annals of marketing failure. Priced at a hilariously exorbitant (at the time) £30, and £24 for just the one supplement The Ringworld Companion, this game was doomed

Ringworld didn't tank due to poor marketing and price. It tanked because the media rights, which also included the RPG, were sold and Chaosium had to abandon the game shortly after the Companion came out.
Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

Ringworld was Larry diTillio's baby. I believe he jumped ship not long after that, to go and do TV projects - including early seasons of Babylon 5. Yes?

And to go back to the license issue - you can see where it failed there, then. Superworld may have failed because it could have done with securing, say, the DC or the Marvel license rather than the company that did end up with the licenses. Ringworld failed because it clearly depended on its license.

So Mongoose really needs to make sure that any Legend (or indeed Traveller) iteration can withstand the withdrawal of any necessary licenses; such that, say, if they secured the rights to Harry Harrison's Stainless Steel Rat setting and it was later withdrawn, the core book won't go down with the license's withdrawal: just the SSR sourcebooks.

I've a gut feeling that "Legend SF" or "Legend Modern" should have no problems surviving the loss of any given SF license, if they are made sufficiently robust. The issue, then, would become one of marketing these particular iterations.

And first, Legend itself has to make its appearance on the bookshelves. Walk, before you can fly.
 
Ringworld was John Hewlett's baby. He did an immense amount of research - so much so that Niven himself used the game as an information resource. Unfortunately John passed away a few years ago .

A campaign pack was planned for RW: 'The City in the Jungle'. Regrettably it was an early casualty of the license being pulled, but I saw the prep material for it (and contributed a scenario) and it would've been terrific.
 
Dan True said:
danskmacabre said:
Me and Mixster was working on a Legend modern - which could be used for scifi also. We're not working on it at the moment, but if anyone is interested in helping we will probably get back to it soon.

I don't think Mongoose will make sci-fi (although they might do Modern), as it can almost only take away customer base from Traveller.. but I don't rightly know.
- Dan

Definitely interested have you given any thought as to where you'd set your first concept for a Modern-Legend setting?
 
Hopeless said:
Dan True said:
danskmacabre said:
Me and Mixster was working on a Legend modern - which could be used for scifi also. We're not working on it at the moment, but if anyone is interested in helping we will probably get back to it soon.

I don't think Mongoose will make sci-fi (although they might do Modern), as it can almost only take away customer base from Traveller.. but I don't rightly know.
- Dan

Definitely interested have you given any thought as to where you'd set your first concept for a Modern-Legend setting?

We were thinking of focussing on normal urban present-day equipment, and then add 2-3 short chapters in the back of the book, describing alternates - Mixster had an idea for an original setting of his own device, and I want to do Quatermain - Indiana Jonas / ww2 period. So that was the approach we were going with.
I am pretty busy at the moment, but some of my projects stop during this month hopefully - and we might give it a shot again.

Whether I'll just host it like my Eberron conversion, or we'll ask if Mongoose wants to publish it, I dunno. We need to talk about that when we actually have a product.

- Dan
 
Redcrow said:
Dan True said:
We were thinking of focussing on normal urban present-day equipment,

I don't have it (yet), but BRP has a Modern Equipment Catalog

http://basicroleplaying.com/content.php/42-The-Modern-Equipment-Catalog

Thanks, that might be interesting to get as inspiration.

Personally I'm torn between working on Modern Legends with Mixster, and continuing on a supplement for Viking I had plans for working on. No idea which I'll work on next.

- Dan
 
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