RULES QUESTION: Striking Cobra and Sneak attack damage

[Galt Hagar's Son]

OK I was fooling around with an NPC (15th level thief/ assassin) and came across the conundrum: can you sneak attack from the front? With Striking Cobra and a character with a Sneak attack, it appears that you could since a properly executed diece roll would prevent the enemey from having a parry or dodge and he'd be flat footed in the 'surprise' attack.

Am I right?

To build on this, if the thief has 'brawler' is it redundant to get improved unarmed strike? Or does Brawl, just up the damage and keeps the penalties at the same amount, unlike Strike, which appears to keep the damage the same but mitigate the penalties?

Thanks guys.

 

[Jotenbjorn]

you don't have to be behind a victim to use sneak attack, he simply must be either flat footed or unable to defend himself. that's why the name was changed from backstab in 3rd edition.

with the brawl profieciency you are still considered unarmed, and thus suffer attacks of opportunity when facing armed opponents. the improved unarmed strike feat means your character is treated as armed and doesn't suffer the aoo. in addition, if an unarmed character attacks a character with improved unarmed strike the defender gets the attack of opportunity.

 

[urdinaran]

Also, you can use sneak attack if you flank an opponent.

 

[Belkregos]

i think the best option for a thief is to Building on the Feint chain, with the feat Grater Feint, he can feint opponents as a free action and if he succeeds the oponent will be flat footed and he'll be able to sneak attack

 

[Jotenbjorn]

god i hate that feat. it's so broken. i don't even understand how they can think it's balanced.

 

[geordiekimbo]

yes you can sneak attack from the front...before a character acts he is flat-footed, so anyone with sneak attack will cause sneak attack damage to the person who cannot use his dex bonus etc.

 

[argo]

OK I was fooling around with an NPC (15th level thief/ assassin) and came across the conundrum: can you sneak attack from the front?

There is no such thing as "front" or "back" because there is no facing in d20. All characters are presumed to be facing whatever direction they need to at any given time.

To build on this, if the thief has 'brawler' is it redundant to get improved unarmed strike? Or does Brawl, just up the damage and keeps the penalties at the same amount, unlike Strike, which appears to keep the damage the same but mitigate the penalties?

Thanks guys.

Brawl increases your unarmed damage and removes the penalties for dealing lethal damage with an unarmed strike letting you deal lethal or non-lethal damage at will.

However, without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat you will still provoke an AOO everytime you make an unarmed attack. If your thief wants to be able to sneak attack people with his fists (not a bad idea BTW; nobody notices when you walk through the door barehanded) then you are probably better off just taking Improved Unarmed Strike and ignoring Brawl. Your sneak attack will make up for the damage. If you ever find yourslef in a situation where you can't sneak attack and you only have your fists .... run :lol:

Hope that helps.

 

[Voltumna]

However, without the Improved Unarmed Strike feat you will still provoke an AOO everytime you make an unarmed attack. If your thief wants to be able to sneak attack people with his fists (not a bad idea BTW; nobody notices when you walk through the door barehanded) then you are probably better off just taking Improved Unarmed Strike and ignoring Brawl. Your sneak attack will make up for the damage. If you ever find yourslef in a situation where you can't sneak attack and you only have your fists .... run :lol:

If you catch your target flat-footed (you win initiative on the first round of combat) you can deliver the unarmed strikes withour provoking the AOOs, unless the target has combat reflexes. You could deliver two unarmed strikes (one primary hand, one off hand) and at no penalty even if you don't have two weapon fighting. This comes handy if you don't have the quick draw feat.

If you take Improved unarmed strike, you might consider later taking Improved grapple as well, and combine it with the multiclassing variant rules for the Ruffian (thief/barbarian) At seconnd barbarian level you can take Dirty grapple in lieu of Bite sword or Crimson mist. If you suceed in the opposed grapple chek, your opponent will be stunned for 1d6, then you can as many sneak attacks as your BAB allows while he is stunned.

I don't really like the Brawler feat, it doesn't seem good enough to me just getting 1d6 for damage, and no penalty for lethal damage. The Improved unarmed strike is a much better option, and for greater damage you could combine with Power attack, which you can use with unarmed strikes.

 

[Galt Hagar's Son]

Thanks to all, who have responded and kep my intial question alive.

Voltumna, I dont have the Prestige Class: Ruffian; I am kinda cheap to buy the three books of Hyborians Fiercest, finest , and Fallen and somewhat morally opposed to prestige classes, that being said, the dirty brawl feat yyou describe sounds extremely powerful.

I think the general consensus is that if you have to choose between Improved unarmed combat and Brawl, the going flow will pick Improved Unarmed Combat (not worry about picking up the D6 of damage, that brawl gets you in exchange for not provoking an AOO).

If anyobe else has some ideas feel free to post, it just seems to me that my 15th level thief is going to be some kinda Bruce Lee Fists of Fury Badass with these feats and the sneak attack damage. Almoost a giant killer and too powerful, someone who will get and 8d8 sneak attack from the dront with his bare hands?!

yikes

THnaks guys!

 

[VincentDarlage]

Voltumna, I dont have the Prestige Class: Ruffian; I am kinda cheap to buy the three books of Hyborians Fiercest, finest , and Fallen and somewhat morally opposed to prestige classes

THnaks guys!

There are NO prestige classes in the three Hyborian books (Fiercest, Finest and Fallen) - not a single one. The ruffian is a character concept with some ideas on how to create one with the core classes; it is not a prestige class.

 

[Galt Hagar's Son]

Thanks Vincent,
I really appreciate your input to this forum and your devotion and dedication to the Hyborian Age.

I am envious of your ability to make money doing what I love to do.

KEep up the good work and start writing a source book for northern Hyboria!