Rules Confusion

[Democratus]

1) Can an enemy ship be moved on top of a friendly fighter?

I know that friendly fighters are moved on to the base of a ship to indicate support. But what if an enemy ship wishes to end its movement exactly where a fighter flight is residing? I ask this because I've considered using a pile of fighters to block enemy ship movement in a Blockade mission - placing them right in the path of a ship where it would end up were it to give an APTE order. This has the effect of forcing the ship to move far less than its maximum.

A nasty trick, but strage to think that a few fighers could block a cruiser from moving wherever it liked. Moreover, if you do rule that ships can move anywhere they like, what would be the rule for relocating a fighter counter that they landed exactly on top of?

2) If a scout does a 'redirect attacks' roll against an enemy ship, can the re-roll be used by fighters as well as ships?
I think the answer here is 'yes', but I'd like to hear confirmation of this from other players.

3) What are the consequences of failing some Special Actions?

Is a ship that failed a Concentrate Fire! Action still limited to firing at only one enemy? If a ship fails an Intensify Defensive Fire! action are its weapons still at 1/2 AD?

4) What refit rolls can be cumulative and what are not?

Some refits specifically state that they may only be taken once, such as the Centauri Point Defense refit. Others, like the Guardian Array do not have this wording. Adding to the confusion is the wording in the main rulebook under the campaign refits section (p.84) which states "Effects are not cumulative" but then gives a poor example because the refit used in the example specifically states that it is not usable more than once on a single weapons system. The reason I ask is that we are in danger of having Maximus ships with Interceptors 4 or more and Dilgar cruisers with a Speed of 16+.

Thanks for any input on these issues.

 

[basaint]

Im no expert but as far as #1 is concerned, the fighter technically couldn't block it because of "3d space". We play if something is in the way, it usually gets moved to the side.

You'll definitely get a lot of feedback on these duzzies.

 

[Democratus]

Im no expert but as far as #1 is concerned, the fighter technically couldn't block it because of "3d space". We play if something is in the way, it usually gets moved to the side.

If the board were truly supposed to represent 3D space then there wouldn't be a rule prohibiting a ship from ending its move on another.

Is this "3d space" rule something you only use for fighters, or can any ship push another ship to the side with its movement?

You'll definitely get a lot of feedback on these duzzies.

Yeah. They are a headache. Thanks for being brave enough to join in.

 

[basaint]

Duh, guess your right on the 'cant end its move...' I'm flexible in my gaming...

 

[Greg Smith]

1) Can an enemy ship be moved on top of a friendly fighter?

Generally we allow ships to move fighters out of the way, or sit on top of counters.

Fighters can be placed on ship bases, so simply reorganise the fighters so they are in the same place as they were before but on top of the base.

2) If a scout does a 'redirect attacks' roll against an enemy ship, can the re-roll be used by fighters as well as ships?
I think the answer here is 'yes', but I'd like to hear confirmation of this from other players.

Yes. If the fighter has multiple weapons, it can only get one redirect, like ships. (Unless the target is 'painted' twice.)

3) What are the consequences of failing some Special Actions?

There is no consequence. (Except for Run Silent!)

4) What refit rolls can be cumulative and what are not?

Good question.

 

[AdrianH]

1: I suspect the rule about no overlapping is primarily intended to protect your nice models. Ships can't overlap other ships because if the bases are touching then the ships themselves are probably banging together. Fighters can overlap ships because they just sit on the ship's base and do not hit the ship itself. Fighters can not overlap other fighters because they would then be sitting on top of the other fighter models. The rule applies to counters as well because if it didn't, anyone fighting with counters against an enemy fleet with models would have a big advantage, which would not have done sales of models much good.

So yes, do what Greg says; move the fighters out of the way, put the ship where you want, then put the fighters back as close to their original positions as possible.

2: The scout must nominate one type of weapon system to benefit from the re-rolls. If it's a weapon system carried by fighters, the fighters get the re-rolls. Read the thread Battle Report: Dilgar vs. Centauri (Blockade) for an example of using this to good effect.

3: What Greg said. If a ship fails a special action (or if the special action is cancelled by a "No Special Actions" critical), the penalties do not apply. (As I found out to my advantage in a recent game where an Omega had declared "Close Blast Doors", resisted some damage, took a "No Special Actions" critical, and got to fire multiple weapons. :twisted The exception, "Run Silent", specifically says in the description that the penalties apply even if the attempt fails.

4: Presumably the ones which say "This refit can only be applied once" can only be applied once, the rest are cumulative.

I'm particularly interested in the ISA refit which knocks 2 off the threshold for Crippled. The White Star's threshold is only 3. If it gets this refit twice (unlikely as it needs a 12 to get it, but not impossible), does that mean the White Star can never be crippled? (It's not one of those which say "Can only be applied once". )

 

[Ripple]

I don't think number 2 is correct AdrianH. The scout doesn't nominate a weapon type, each ship just can only use it on one weapon, at least I think so. Have to find my rules again as I haven't looked up the specific wording lately.

 

[Burger]

Yes, when a scout paints a target, each of your ships (including fighters which are considered "ships" since 2e) can redirect any one weapon if its choice when fired against the painted target. The scout does not have to nominate weapon type.

 

[AdrianH]

That makes weapons redirection from scouting a lot more powerful than I thought. Especially for the Army of Light, with lots of different ships from different races all with different weapons. White Stars are no longer optional in AoL fleets, they're compulsory.

 

[Democratus]

Thanks for all your feedback. I like that everyone is coming to an accord on this.

I think I'll go with what you're saying there on #1. I don't like the idea of fighters somehow forming a solid wall that can stop a ship.

Also seems that the scout actions do, indeed, work with fighters. I suspected that they were treated as ships but I wanted to be sure that I wasn't breaking "tournament standard" play style. I already had that problem before with fighters as interceptors. I'm glad you like my battle report. This question was just to make sure that I hadn't won that battle through some cheesy loophole.

It appears you're also right on Special Actions - though I think the rule is odd. I guess there is enough risk in the game already without making a Special Action another action with a possible negative side effect.

On #4...

4: Presumably the ones which say "This refit can only be applied once" can only be applied once, the rest are cumulative.

I would go with this as well, except ther is a rule on page 84 which states that refit "effects are not cumulative". Wouldn't this mean that all effects are non-cumulative unless otherwise stated? But if that's the case why do some of them also say that they can only be applied once?

I think my brain is melting just a little bit.