RQ monsters. Viper venom error ?

[weasel_fierce]

Viper venom does 1 HP damage to each location every round of the duration.. .and the duration is 6D10 minutes ?

That is one damn deadly venom, surely there's some error here ?

 

[Loz]

From wikipedia...

Vipers

Viper venom (Vipera, Echis, Lachesis, Crotalus) acts more on the vascular system, bringing about coagulation of the blood and clotting of the pulmonary arteries; its action on the nervous system is not great, no individual group of nerve-cells appears to be picked out, and the effect upon respiration is not so direct; the influence upon the circulation explains the great depression which is a symptom of Viperine envenomation. The pain of the wound is severe, and is speedily followed by swelling and discoloration. The symptoms produced by the bite of the European vipers are thus described by the best authorities on snake venom (Martin and Lamb):

The bite is immediately followed by local pain of a burning character; the limb soon swells and becomes discoloured, and within one to three hours great prostration, accompanied by vomiting, and often diarrhoea, sets in. Cold, clammy perspiration is usual. The pulse becomes extremely feeble, and slight dyspnoea and restlessness may be seen. In severe cases, which occur mostly in children, the pulse may become imperceptible and the extremities cold; the patient may pass into coma. In from twelve to twenty-four hours these severe constitutional symptoms usually pass off; but in the meantime the swelling and discoloration have spread enormously. The limb becomes phlegmonous, and occasionally suppurates. Within a few days recovery usually occurs somewhat suddenly, but death may result from the severe depression or from the secondary effects of suppuration.

So it's going to hurt, and you're going to feel shitty, but you could survive it. I suppose it depends on the species of viper, too, but the damage in the game does seem to be somewhat extreme. That said, the toxins you find in things like box jellyfish would produce the kind of results the viper venom rules describe...

 

[JohnLokiBeard]

I think it's definitely time to reintroduce some kind of Life/centralised HP that can be attacked by poisons, drained by vampires, zapped by lightning etc.

 

[soltakss]

I've just been trying to find the description of various poisons in the RQ SRD and Monsters SRD.

It says that Manticore/Wyvern venom is described on page XX but the effects are not in the SRD. I can't remember, are they in the RQ Rulebook?

Looking at the other creatures, most venom does 1D3 or 1D6 damage and lasts for a set number of rounds. Is this right or am I missing the point again?

In the past, if you faced a scorpionman, wyvern or manticore then the most dangerous part was the sting as their venom could kill you in one blow. Now, if all they do is 1D3 damage which goes away after a bit, then they are suddenly not dangerous after all.

Other venom isn't too bad as it has different results. Spider venom hurts a bit but multiple doses paralyses you, for 6D10 minutes. Ghoul venom paralyses you, but only for 1D10 hours. So, even if you have been bitten, the effects soon wear off.

So, it looks as though poison has been severely downgraded. Which makes Viper venom all the more unusual as it does 1 HP per round. I wonder why it is so much stronger than the other types of venom? Even Gorgon venom is a one-shot hit and that is snake-based.

 

[Halfbat]

It says that Manticore/Wyvern venom is described on page XX but the effects are not in the SRD. I can't remember, are they in the RQ Rulebook?

You are correct - I noticed that, too. They are in the core rulebook under 'poisons' on page 91.

Looking at the other creatures, most venom does 1D3 or 1D6 damage and lasts for a set number of rounds. Is this right or am I missing the point again?

A poison's hit point damage is just like ordinary damage (see p 91 under 'Duration').

In the past, if you faced a scorpionman, wyvern or manticore then the most dangerous part was the sting as their venom could kill you in one blow. Now, if all they do is 1D3 damage which goes away after a bit, then they are suddenly not dangerous after all.

:shock: I'd not want to face one....
As the sting of a scorpionman still does 2D6 on top of the 1D3 and also subtracts from CON as well a few hits can seriously damage a character, especially if the hit points in each location drop. I take your point that it's not the same as 13-point systemic poison but such a change is probably inevitable given the removal of central hit point pool.

Wyvern venom also effectively reduces the number of combat actions so a character becomes vulnerable _fast_. Wyverns are tough, especially if you give them the extra attack for an 'off-handed' weapon (tail).

So, it looks as though poison has been severely downgraded. Which makes Viper venom all the more unusual as it does 1 HP per round. I wonder why it is so much stronger than the other types of venom?

I wonder if it was a mistype, perhaps? I can see viper venom (reading the above) damaging the location hit and eventually forcing Resilience rolls (which may cause death and unconsciousness) but it is _soooo_ lethal now that I daren't throw unaltered viper at my PCs as it's likely to kill them really fast (6d10 minutes * 10 rounds * 1HP/location/round? - Ouch! :roll: ). Even a Healing check takes 1d4+1 minutes... :?

 

[canology]

I am currently working on an "Advanced Venoms" for RQ (as a follow-up to my wildly popular :roll: "Advanced Diseases") and I am going to be having snake and spider venom do damage to both the location that is bit and to CON in general (representing the systemic damage and organ shut-down that occurs).
From my research, I'd say that 1 HP per location for 6d10 minutes is insanely lethal and much faster acting than most venoms (even the Inland Taipan, which probably does more damage than that, but over more time).
That damage and speed almost seems to be about what I would expect from nerve gas.

Edit: I am going on the assumption that if you drop to zero CON you are dead, that will make the venoms a bit more dangerous without being unrealistically damaging.
Also, scorpionmen and manticores should be *way* more dangerous, as their venom will be similar to regular scorpion venom, but delivering an amount comensurate with their size.

 

[Voriof]

Edit: I am going on the assumption that if you drop to zero CON you are dead, that will make the venoms a bit more dangerous without being unrealistically damaging.
Also, scorpionmen and manticores should be *way* more dnagerous, as their venom will be similar to regular scorpion venom, but delivering an amount comensurate with their size.

Traditionally, 0 CON = Death.

On the other hand, after working for a decade as a field geologist, I can safely say that being bitten by poisonous snakes, spiders, or scorpions can be remarkably painful and debilitating. Especially the spiders.

On the other hand, with respect to large-load poisoners, many of the poisons are very volatile and short-lived. A larger load may be less effective than expected due to degradation.

Jeff - who still thinks that a scorpion sting is less annoying than a rabid fox bite

 

[canology]

On the other hand, with respect to large-load poisoners, many of the poisons are very volatile and short-lived. A larger load may be less effective than expected due to degradation.

Jeff - who still thinks that a scorpion sting is less annoying than a rabid fox bite

I've been concentrating on the snakes for the moment while trying to distill a poisoning system that isn't incredibly complicated while still being more detailed than the existing system. That said, it seems that the venom from snakes continues to do damage for up to 48 (sometimes 72) hrs.
In the case of spiders like the Black Widow, the only thing that saves people is their size compared to the amount of venom the spider injects. A Black Widow the size of a football would probably kill you before you could reach the phone to dial 911.

 

[soltakss]

In the case of spiders like the Black Widow, the only thing that saves people is their size compared to the amount of venom the spider injects. A Black Widow the size of a football would probably kill you before you could reach the phone to dial 911.

What about one the size of a horse?

 

[Quire]

What about one the size of a horse?

Its venom would be so deadly you'd die about three minutes BEFORE it actually bit you.

- Q

 

[Halfbat]

What about one the size of a horse?

Its venom would be so deadly you'd die about three minutes BEFORE it actually bit you.

That's useful. At least the rest of the party would have some warning, then.



And at least we know what type of spider Shelob _wasn't_