RPG Realms has old Traveller Stuff for Sale

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

RPG Realms has some old Judgest Guild Sectors and some TNE:1248 stuff they are selling.

I don't know the legalities of this, since I thought Mongoose and FFE were the only legal licenses right now (well GURPS too).

Matt, is this site legal or should we ignore/report it?

 

[DFW]

If, RPG Realms is a bookstore & not QLI, etc., there is no problem selling stock they own.

 

[apoc527]

Yea, if those are hardcopies of the books, then under American copyright law (and I believe British as well), that is perfectly legal. It's called the doctrine of first sale, and means that there is no copyright violation when selling books that have already been sold once (distributor to retailer, in this case).

 

[SSWarlock]

DriveThruRPG.com also has some 1248 items for sale so I guess they're still legally available.

 

[The Dark Avenger]

I've queried Marc about this, as there are two key issues here:

1. Does this mean that I can sell the small stock of 1248 books I have, which were sent to me for various uses including promotional use etc. Marc/FFE never actually informed me of what the license sunset implications were, so I took a best guess and obtained information where I could. FFE has never answered my queries on the subject, not now and not those raised some time ago. But they never actually told me about the license sunset either; I learned third-hand. Yes, really.

2. RPGRealms is selling PDFs of old Judges' Guild materials, which is not 'old stock'. Does this mean that I can sell PDFs of old materials that I hold the rights to?

FFE has not answered any of my queries about these issues, though Mongoose have as usual been courteous and helpful.

People wonder why I became disaffected with FFE; that's it right there. I, as a licensee, was never even informed of my license sunset or its implications. Queries about it go unanswered. But a certain rival licensee, who is a good buddy of Marc Miller's, is permitted to go on selling after his license runs out.

Favouritism? Maybe. Certainly a total lack of regard towards me and Avenger, as usual. I used to just swallow stuff like this and remain politely silent, but that didn't earn me any points so these days I feel justified in pointing out the injustice. As I told Marc Miller a while back, I deserved better than this.

 

[DFW]

I've queried Marc about this, as there are two key issues here:

1. Does this mean that I can sell the small stock of 1248 books I have, which were sent to me for various uses including promotional use etc.

Any personally owned physical books can be sold. Marc has no say over that. As far as PDF's, I don't know the current case law or statutes.

 

[apoc527]

Who owns the copyright on the old works? I think it really depends on what the terms of the license were. For example, I know WotC destroyed any stock it had on hand after its Star Wars license ran out. Of course, that's a huge company and even bigger company.

I'd speak to a lawyer about it. Maybe you can still sell your 1248 stuff, just not create new products!

 

[Jon Brazer Enterprises]

1. Does this mean that I can sell the small stock of 1248 books I have, which were sent to me for various uses including promotional use etc.

I bet if you do, you'll get some kind of swift reaction. Just saying.

 

[AKAmra]

Dark Avenger wrote:

Please post a "heads-up" here if you do decide to sell them. I'd like hard copies of the 1248 stuff and would rather give you my money if I have a choice.

 

[GamerDude]

Dark Avenger wrote:

...Does this mean that I can sell the small stock of 1248 books I have, ...

Please post a "heads-up" here if you do decide to sell them. I'd like hard copies of the 1248 stuff and would rather give you my money if I have a choice.

Hear Hear! A hearty second to that! Keep us in mind should you go to sell them.

 

[The Dark Avenger]

You know, maybe I've been going about this the wrong way.

I've been trying ever so hard to comply with the terms of a license that I have to guess at. FFE never told me the license was to end, nor what that implies for me, nor have they responded to my query about whether I can sell off the remaining books I have.

They're also not apparently bothered about RPGRealms selling PDF Traveller materials. So maybe I should stop caring what FFE thinks, or about complying with a license that they won't tell me about.

I've had an answer about this from Mongoose, and they don't object to me selling off old books. So it looks like I have a small number of (signed if you want) copies of 1248 book 2: Bearers of the Flame for sale, plus a few odd other products. That includes some QLI-era stuff like TA1: Personal Weapons.

 

[The Dark Avenger]

The question of PDFs is a different one. Again, I don't actually know what the terms of the FFE license sunset were because they never got around to telling me (even when I asked) but I understood that at the end of the license, PDF-only materials could no longer be sold. I've complied with that best-guess ever since.

However, the situation with RPGRealms brings this into question. I know that RPGRealms owns the rights to these materials in the same way that I own the rights to the Avenger Traveller stuff.

It would appear that if RPGRealms can sell their Judges Guild materials in PDF, then I can sell the Avenger PDFs. My understanding is that neither of us can do that, but perhaps I was wrong. After all, RPGRealms are doing it right now and FFE *is* aware of it (I know this because I told them).

So FFE does not object to this? Does that mean I misunderstood the license situation? Does it mean that if FFE had actually answered my questions or told me what the implications of the license sunset were then I could have continued to make a return on my work?

Actually, I don't think so. I think that RPGRealms is not permitted to sell the Judges Guild materials and are in violation of licensing agreements. But FFE isn't stopping them.

Perhaps in the end all it comes down to is that there are rules for those of us who choose to follow them.

 

[spinwardpirate]

Perhaps in the end all it comes down to is that there are rules for those of us who choose to follow them.

Truer words were not spoken.

 

[rust]

I suspect that the rights concerning the Traveller material from Judges
Guild are now owned by FFE, because DTRPG sells the PDFs under the
GDW label, not - like for example the fantasy material of Judges Guild -
under the Judges Guild label, and Judges Guild themselves do not sell
any Traveller material on their own website.

Since FFE can and does sell all their own Traveller material, it seems the
material once published by Fasa, Gamelords, Judges Guild and Paranoia
Press is now legally owned and sold by FFE, not by any previous or cur-
rent license holder.

 

[andrew boulton]

Since FFE can and does sell all their own Traveller material, it seems the material once published by Fasa, Gamelords, Judges Guild and Paranoia Press is now legally owned and sold by FFE, not by any previous or current license holder.

I believe this is correct.

 

[Dave Chase]

Once again, a simple and straight forward reply from the IP owner (or official rep) would resolve this issue in seconds.










Dave Chase

 

[The Dark Avenger]

Yes it would. So I asked for one.

Twice.

 

[Vile]

FFE never told me the license was to end

I'm no expert, but I don't believe a contract can be determined without notifying the other party or having made the attempt. I wonder if you actually still had the licence all along, technically ... ?

 

[rust]

FFE never told me the license was to end

I'm no expert, but I don't believe a contract can be determined without notifying the other party or having made the attempt. I wonder if you actually still had the licence all along, technically ... ?

Over here this would be the case, a written contract requires a written no-
tification of its termination, at least unless the contract included a specific
date when it would end. Hoping that the other party would be informed
about the termination of the contract by hearsay or jungle drums would
not be considered a proper legal procedure.

 

[DFW]

FFE never told me the license was to end

I'm no expert, but I don't believe a contract can be determined without notifying the other party or having made the attempt. I wonder if you actually still had the licence all along, technically ... ?

Over here this would be the case, a written contract requires a written no-
tification of its termination, at least unless the contract included a specific
date when it would end. Hoping that the other party would be informed
about the termination of the contract by hearsay or jungle drums would
not be considered a proper legal procedure.

Same in the U.S.