Ranged Touch Attack

[Hellhawk]

After reading through some of the spell descriptions in the Technomage Sourcebook, I was wondering how ranged touch attacks (required for most offensive spells) work in die B5 RPG.

In D20, the difference between an attack and a touch attack is that the touch attack (ranged or not) ignores the armour bonus provided by armour. However, armour does not make you harder to hit in B5, but soaks up damage.

What exactly does a touch attack do, then? Ignore class-based defense bonuses

Rainer

 

[Thomas Weinbrenner]

I think you should make this a normal ranged attack.

Personally I don't think the author knew how armour worked in B5. His Armour spells also give a bonus to DV instead of DR like armour usually does.

 

[Hellhawk]

Yeah, I was wondering about that, too... but this is easy enough to convert into a DR bonus.

Treating the spell effect as a normal ranged attack would probably weaken the Technomage at lower levels, though. These spells are hard enough to cast as is and attack spells usually give Chaos Points. Let's go for an example:

A 4th level Technomage has a BAB of +2; let's add +3 for a Dex of 17 and another +1 due to Accurate Bolts and, if you follow similar D&D rulings, yet another plus +1 for Precise Shot if you count a spell as a "personal ranged weapon" (and allow the two feats side by side). That's a total of +7. At the same time, let our 4th-level Technomage have a Magery value of +17 (7 ranks, +3 each for and Charisma at 16 each, +2 for an Intelligence of 14, +2 for the Skill Focus feat).

Now let's imagine our mage casting a Greater Fireball, DC 23, i.e., a 25% chance of failure of casting the spell (and 1 Chaos Point). The target is a 4th-level soldier with a Dex of 12, i.e., DV 14. That's a 50% miss chance, not counting the reflex save for half.

Now let's jump ahead a bit to level 10 each. Our Technomage now has a Magery value of 23 and a Ranged Attack of +11 (let's assume Dexterity was raised to 18 at level 8, although personally I wouldn't do that). Beating the spell's casting DC is no longer much of an issue, but our 10th-level soldier now has DV 18. This is somewhat better for the Technomage in the long run, but still a 30% chance of failure...

Especially at the lower levels, it still is a lot tougher than in D&D, where spells do not need skill rolls to be cast.

Raienr

 

[Rabi'a]

CHA and WIS of 16, INT 14 AND DEX 17??? What rules are YOU using?

You do know there are some prerequisites for techno-mages as well? Like a high CON?

 

[Hellhawk]

CHA and WIS of 16, INT 14 AND DEX 17??? What rules are YOU using?

You do know there are some prerequisites for techno-mages as well? Like a high CON?

I was constructing an example, and the attributes are peripheral to my question about a ranged touch attack anyway. If they disturb you so much, though, take a look at the stats found at end of the technomage book and you see where I'm coming from. Looking at the stats for, say, Galen, I'd say it's a 50-point build.

Rainer

 

[Rabi'a]

Do NOT use Galen as an example....that bloke is....*disturbed*.

But as I know you've created this thread for *me* ,

the stats you're talking about would be 8, 12, 14, 17, 16, 16- still stupider than that bloody Marsie in our campaign. Magery is +19 (7 ranks, skill focus, and bonuses)

And oh BOY, does my touch attack s**k!

 

[Hellhawk]

Which makes it a 60% chance of failure for the greater fireball at level 4... even better illustrating my point.

Rainer

 

[Nora]

Perhaps, you could simply base the attack on another attribute instead. (Given the Mage's spell language doesn't involve dance or other dexterious acts). Wisdom or intelligence might do the trick and both stats are more likely to be increased at later levels.

DR does count against fire damage as it would seem. Still, the possible damage dealt by a greater fireball is considerable and not every SC/NSC is as hard to hit or as sturdy as a pure soldier.

 

[Rabi'a]

Perhaps, you could simply base the attack on another attribute instead. (Given the Mage's spell language doesn't involve dance or other dexterious acts). Wisdom or intelligence might do the trick and both stats are more likely to be increased at later levels.

In my case, no, it doesn't involve any acrobatics. Now, you're not just saying these things because you want to make me happy, Miss Psi Cop?

 

[Hellhawk]

The idea as such is a good one, though. It would take away quite a few of my problems with the touch attack concept by allowing the attack to be tailored to the spell method of the Technomage.

Rainer

 

[Nora]

In my case, no, it doesn't involve any acrobatics. Now, you're not just saying these things because you want to make me happy, Miss Psi Cop?

Not really (though I do like to see you happy).:lol:

I just thought of Carvin's spell dance and Galen's equations - and that system just doesn't fit both equally well.
The spell system remains rather rigid and bound to D&D concepts (although it certainly is an improvement). Sure, you could try to reflect the chosen spell language in your feats or your set of attributes, but your choices (as always in D20) are limited.

The rules try to balance the attributes and loose some flexibility in doing so.
While tweaking the system always risks the intended balance, I think that change might just be useful...

edit: Carvin... not Calvin

 

[Hellhawk]

In a related vein, I've just noticed that The Zocalo (different author) also has the notion of a "Touch Attack". On p. 34, in the section of attributes for ancient alien weapons, it says:

"Touch Attack - the item makes a touch attack rather than a regular attack."

I still don't get it...

Rainer