Random bit of discussion,

Brucifer

Mongoose
Mellow greetings.

Hi to all and well done MGP for releasing these books. I have been a die hard fan since the second series, and since i first watched the show i have had an unhealthy fixation with Shadows.

In the game im running at the mo, a long series of stories have led up to my players being selected to run the shake down on one of the Advanced Tactical Destroyers (the Shadow-tech Omegas).

Having done this I was wondering if anybody out there has any ideas for this campaign.The team are part of Sheridan's/Haig's Conspiracy but they are working for a "second tier" sort of connection, and their work doesnt interfere too much with this particular arc. Story wise, ive managed to cram loads of character hooks throughout, so theres no probs there, but i mean like decent pics of this ship. Floorplans, damage ratings anything.

Ive managed to compile some stats of my own and ill certainly post them if anybodies interested.

Many Thanx
 
IIRC, someone mentionned that the Shadow-tech Omega's stats and details will be featured in the Season 4 sourcebook coming up. 8)
 
I personally want to see a write up on the Warlock!
It's mentioned in the series (Susan takes command of one at the end of season 4).
 
OK first things first: I mentioned to my players that it had positive gravity but when i double checked with B5W (ref: Atlas of EA wars) i found that the stansard Shadow Omegas had rotating sections, not grav fields. So i cheated. THis is actually based on a Nova chassis and does have grav fields, but only because a Shadowsouled plan of vengeance could kick off (long story, only ask if youve got a long period of boredom).

This is the Earth Alliance Advanced Tactical Destroyer Prototype (ahem)

Collosal Type III, 750 hp, DV 10, DR 24, Accel/Decel 3/2, Handling +2, Sensors +5, Stealth 15, SQ Jump point, Artificial Gravity, Long Ranged, Energy Diffusers,

Cargo 125,000 lbs

Crew 4 Officers, 28 Pilots, 10 Sensor Ops, 50 Crew.

Weapons,
4 Twin Linked Light Molecular Slicers
2F 2 R, Attack +4 (Targeting Computer) Dmg 150 + 2d100, Crit 19 - 20, Cannot be intercepted, Can split damage between up to 3 targets in a round, Ignores DR of any non First one or Hybrid based tech, Range 7.

10 Light Multiphased Cutters
5L 5R, Attack +4 (Targeting Computer) +5 vs Fighters and shuttle class, Damage 30 + 3d10, Crit 19-20, Range 3, SQ Rapid Fire.

4 MKII Interceptors (q.v.)

Craft 24 Thunderbolts, 2 Shuttles.


There ya go. I know that it aint canon before anyone flames me. Its just a starting point and I'd be very interested to hear what everyone has to say.

Cheers :D
 
Well, I do sincirely hope the guys at mongoose will take the opportunity to make a better ShadOmega then AoG did with their "oh, let's give them Light Molecular Slicers, because they are shadowed, even though they fire blue beams while all true shadow weaponry is and always has been purple - even the supposedly light beams fired from a Scout/Destroyer hull in 'Into the Fire'..."
OK, let's stop myself before I go into rant mode.
I don't expect them to take over the idea I have been telling every B5W person who asked (and quite a lot who didn't) about for the last few years (A new weapons range called "Multiphased Beams" for the ShadOmega - two twin-heavy front, two twin-mediun aft and six light per side, something the Shadows abandones millenia ago as obsolete and are now giving out to their minions as present which in capability is a bit between true LMSB's and Minbari Neutron Lasers - it also has the neat benefit to avoid another logical problem AoG got into with the 'inside-EA, outside-shady' ShadOmega of theirs - younger race reactors powering true first one guns without problem...). But I do hope they won't follow the lead of the AoG ShadOmega and re-open that can of worms... (and when you think about it, my idea was not only avoiding all those bad logic contradioctions, but also following the screen evidence better - pity I only saw the ShadOmega when it became a SotM, by then it was too late to try and convince Agent-1... besides, I remember him tellingh me I was the only one who objected in a sea of EA players drooling to get their hands on armor-ignoring, every-turn-firing ShadowGuns for their B5W fleets... figures.)

Anyway, I'd suggest to make the ShadOmega weapons in this incarnation like that:

Two Twin-Linked Heavy Multiphased Beams - Forward, Boresight; Attack +2 (the ShadOmega still has the normal EA targeting computer, nothing more, perhaps a +3 but no more); Damage 150+10d10; Critical 18-20; Range 6 (possibly 7)

Two Twin-Linked Medium Multiphased Beams - Aft, Boresight; Attack +2 (see above); Damage 75+5d10; Critical 19-20; Range 5

Two Hex-Linked Light Multiphased Beams - 1 Forward, 1 Aft, Boresight; Attack +2 (see above); Damage 25+3d10; Critical 20; Range 3
(though actually I'm not entirely happy with Mongoose doing the small turrets on the Omega as hex-linked; I'd prefer them seperate with six per 180° side arc...)

Six Mk-II Interceptors (as Omega)

And the common ShadOmega HAS only rotational gravity. However, in your camapign there might be something special - a prototype that mounts an AG system that is either an EA test model and very glitchy, or is a captured/purchased system the EA engineers haven't been able to reproduce yet, which means it's also unrepairable and will break down pretty soon... because the EA only gets real AG when they sign the IA charter, and every one of those gets packed into the new construction Warlocks...
 
Greg Smith said:
Is there a canon source for starship weaponry, or did AoG make it all up?

There is no cannon source outside of the show. Earls and all have made attempts but there has been much confusion, not the least of which because Babylonian Productions was known to give contradictory info on a regular basis. Note that AoG had several different weapons load-outs for the Omega, then got contradicted in the later seasons when we see the same ship firing different weapons-style fire out of the same gun-emplacement. Further, BP also madated that AoG include some things even when the on-screen evidence contradicted it. Finally, the target was always moving, so it seemed AoG would release a ship-spec and then the next aired episode would contradict it! To say it's messy is being generous.

Give me about 3 more months and I should be rolling out my capital-ship size & weapons load-out somewhere on the net, I've spent way too much time going through every episode on DVD and making screen-grabs of the various weapons fire and relative scales. Fourth season is awfully fun, as the relative consistency in these things for the first three seasons appears to have been chucked to the side of the road!

Matt
 
ShadowScout said:
Well, I do sincirely hope the guys at mongoose will take the opportunity to make a better ShadOmega then AoG did with their "oh, let's give them Light Molecular Slicers, because they are shadowed, even though they fire blue beams while all true shadow weaponry is and always has been purple - even the supposedly light beams fired from a Scout/Destroyer hull in 'Into the Fire'..."...

Interesting. If you watch the sequence of screen caps starting at http://groups.msn.com/Mattsmodelstuffandreference/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=35 you might note that the only weapons fire that the Shadow Omegas use is a sustained blue beam from all of the weapons turrets that it swings around exactly like the Shadow slicer beams. In addition, when it touches a Whitestar with no visible damage the ship, special Minbari-Vorlon armor and all, immediately explodes. With the sole exception of being blue instead of purple, the beam looks (has the same pattern in the beam) and acts exactly the same as a Shadow battlecrab's slicer beam while having similar relative power (rough guess based on the immediacy of the Whitestar's destruction). I guess I fail to see why calling them light molecular slicers was a poor choice. Heck, I'm not sure what else they could have called them.

Matt
 
I agree with nitflegal. As for the powering of ancient weaponry, well, frankly, power is power. Maybe a EA reactor couldn't power a full slicer; I see no reason why they couldn't power a smaller, weaker version of the same technology. And why wouldn't the Shadows give Clarke a good level of tech? It looks like they were setting up Humanity to be their next servant race, alongside the Drakh.

AOG's Shadow Omega made perfect sense, given whatthey'd already done with both races previously AND the on-screen shots.
 
nitflegal said:
Note that AoG had several different weapons load-outs for the Omega, then got contradicted in the later seasons when we see the same ship firing different weapons-style fire out of the same gun-emplacement.

The latter is why the Omega Gamma exists :)
 
Sundog said:
I agree with nitflegal. As for the powering of ancient weaponry, well, frankly, power is power. Maybe a EA reactor couldn't power a full slicer; I see no reason why they couldn't power a smaller, weaker version of the same technology. And why wouldn't the Shadows give Clarke a good level of tech? It looks like they were setting up Humanity to be their next servant race, alongside the Drakh.

AOG's Shadow Omega made perfect sense, given whatthey'd already done with both races previously AND the on-screen shots.

Frankly, if you want to be a strict canonist about it, one could make the point to simply have made it a standard Shadow slicer beam. After all, it cuts through Whitestars like the proverbial hot knife through butter. I'd asume that they hedged a bit and made it a light slicer to prevent some of the howls about giving EF full Shadow Technology.

Matt
 
Well i didnt think that this post would have such an effect.

I like to think that i know what im talking about when it comes to both gaming and B5 and so that nobody thinks im a muppet, id just like to make the following points.

The Shadow Nova we happen to be using is a prototype that the Shadowsouled have enacted as a sort of revenge move. The power source is not EA made and the weapons loadout is experimental. Same goes for the AG. They have never been destined to have this ship for very long and it served as a potent bit of foreshadowing for season 4.

One of the biggest probs seem to be the actual Shadowsouled - never heard of them before and i cant help feeling that they were only put in as a bit of variety for Mongoose. Doesnt mean i dont like them, i happen to think that theyre really cool if used correctly (read Subtly) but ... well what do you think?

:D
 
the only weapons fire that the Shadow Omegas use is a sustained blue beam from all of the weapons turrets that it swings around exactly like the Shadow slicer beams.
Or exactly like Minbari green beams. Or even like some red laser beams.

In addition, when it touches a Whitestar with no visible damage the ship, special Minbari-Vorlon armor and all, immediately explodes.
Yup. Explodes, just like a WhiteStar does when hit by a Heavy Laser in "No surrender, No retreat" - only then enough of it remains to crash into an Omega.
But it never does cut Anything in half - as a slicer seems to do whenever given half a chance (remember how the narn ships looked after being hit with slicer beams).

With the sole exception of being blue instead of purple, the beam looks (has the same pattern in the beam)
Actually the "bright core and surrounding nebulous effect" pattern is rather common to many B5 show beams - the only thing where the Shadow beam is truly different is that it is a bit more different in color then the others which use two rather similar colors...

and acts exactly the same as a Shadow battlecrab's slicer beam while having similar relative power (rough guess based on the immediacy of the Whitestar's destruction).
Not so - a heavy laser also did enough damage to cripple a WhiteStar, so I wouldn't say a "blue beam" needs truly ancient level damage - Minbari level seemes enough.
Look at what you're writing right there - you say a ShadOmega has twice to four times the firepower of a true Shadow Battlecrab!!

I guess I fail to see why calling them light molecular slicers was a poor choice. Heck, I'm not sure what else they could have called them.
Poor choice because it set a bad precedent.

Also, if you look at the B5W stats, LMSB's can fire every turn, while the big blue beams of the ShadOmega obviously need some recharge time - just like common laser cannons.

As for the powering of ancient weaponry, well, frankly, power is power. Maybe a EA reactor couldn't power a full slicer; I see no reason why they couldn't power a smaller, weaker version of the same technology.
Not really. Oh, maybe a big EA reactor could power One tiny little slicer beam, but not more. You see, even ancients must follow the laws of nature (though they do get to play with technology that can bend them slightly), and a weapon that puts out a big boom needs to power that destructive force somehow; and the bigger it's punch the more power it'll eat.
And we have a plot in crusade telling us the whole power of the gigantic Excalibur for a whole minute is needed to recharge an Vorlon gun for a single shot. Now, even if we assume that this vorlon gun is a bit bigger and more power hungry than a LMSB, it still makes little sense that an common EA reactor could power multiple slicers at all. Of course, there would have been a way around this - AoG could have declared Shadow guns to have their own internal shadowtech power supply (and would have been backed up by a line of text from "infection"), but since they choose to do the Shadows with an reactor system and power distribution like all other races in their game, giving the ancient weapons a power stat just like others, well...

And why wouldn't the Shadows give Clarke a good level of tech? It looks like they were setting up Humanity to be their next servant race, alongside the Drakh.
Sure, maybe. But not at first - they wouldn't give them their best toys before they proved their dedication - or do you think the Shadows are stupid??
And from the flashbacks in Crusade it would seem they later gave the humans even more tech to play with (even though they just didn't manage to make it work properly). I have no problem with the purple beam from the ShadowHybrid to be a MSB, as it for one displayed more destructive power then a normal younger race beam (vaporizing not a small medium class ship like a WhiteStar but a full Omega destroyer in one shot) and for another it Was shadow-purple.
But I have a problem with people making blue beams into slicer beams. Because when you have only screen evidence to go by, it makes sense to go by it. And since there's only three things that screen evidence can tell you (type of damage - beam, pulse, blast, etc.; color of energy - red, green, blue, purple, etc.; and effect - scorched paint, explosion, ship vaporized or cun in half, etc.) I dislike it when two beams that are a completely dfifferent color are made "brothers" in technology. Cousins I have no problem with - hence my calling them "Multiphased Beams" and assuming that was the weapon system the Shadows used in their infancy, later developing the "Molecular Slicer Beam" and "Multiphased Cutter" from it... I also have no problem with these beams being powerful - Minbari green beams should also be powerful IMO (more powerful then in B5W, one of the changes I like in Mongoose's stuff); and I'd have no problem with the ShadOmega big blue beams being even a bit more powerful then Minbari big green beams.

Frankly, if you want to be a strict canonist about it, one could make the point to simply have made it a standard Shadow slicer beam. After all, it cuts through Whitestars like the proverbial hot knife through butter. I'd asume that they hedged a bit and made it a light slicer to prevent some of the howls about giving EF full Shadow Technology.
Hell, after your reasoning almost everyone shoudl have slicer beams! Look at the many other things that can cut through a poor little WhiteStar like butter? Do the Centauri ships that shoot the one carrying Delenn to pieces in hyperspace also have ancient-level weaponry? Do the raiders that wreck the one coming to tell the IA about the Enphili? Do the Minbari who can fire a green beam that can even (of the horror) cut off a Sharlin's tail fin?
Or do all those millenia extra tech development the Shadows had actually mean something, and could it be that their technology really is a bit more advanced then that of your common player character? I realize it must be a hard concept to wrap one's mind around if you are of the "whatta you want - beams are all the same anyway" school of throught...

Strict canonistic would have made it an powerful weapon, true, but not that powerful; and certainly not a true slicer beam because it Just Is Not Purple!



One of the biggest probs seem to be the actual Shadowsouled - never heard of them before and i cant help feeling that they were only put in as a bit of variety for Mongoose. Doesnt mean i dont like them, i happen to think that theyre really cool if used correctly (read Subtly) but ... well what do you think?
Same feeling here - and I don't like them. The Minbari are too often compared to elves for my liking anyway, so I felt a painful twist in my feeling when I saw someone giving them the equivalent of Drow...
Besides, I really dislike the "the Shadows are behind EVERYTHING" kind of thinking - it's so "children's animated TV show", where one and the same villain is behind every plot week after week after week... Oh, I love the idea of a clan of Minbari that split off rather then follow Valen's ways, but the rest... well, at least when I GM I can igore whatever I don't like from the sourcebooks, just as I did with other materials.
 
ShadowScout said:
Oh, I love the idea of a clan of Minbari that split off rather then follow Valen's ways, but the rest... well, at least when I GM I can ignore whatever I don't like from the sourcebooks, just as I did with other materials.
I like the fact that August includes lots of different stuff in his racebooks, so that one can use whatever he wants. It's your game, so you decide what you include or not in your camp.
The purpose of such a sourcebook is to offer options, and they sure are plentiful. The problem is, if the ShadowSouled kind of materiel did not appear, there would be other gamers whining about lack of optional materiel. I guess you can never please everybody... :roll:

I, for one, will surely use them in my game, although very sparsely. Just to surprise the players.
 
ShadowScout said:
the only weapons fire that the Shadow Omegas use is a sustained blue beam from all of the weapons turrets that it swings around exactly like the Shadow slicer beams.
Or exactly like Minbari green beams. Or even like some red laser beams.

Well, the Green neutron beams from the Minbari ships are generally shown being static in direction or, in a few instances, seeming to track slightly (Sharlin's tail). They don't generally whip 100 degrees in 3 seconds. Not that they couldn't, we simply don't have evidence that they do. Certainly the same beams from the Whitestar noses don't track about.
In addition, when it touches a Whitestar with no visible damage the ship, special Minbari-Vorlon armor and all, immediately explodes.
Yup. Explodes, just like a WhiteStar does when hit by a Heavy Laser in "No surrender, No retreat" - only then enough of it remains to crash into an Omega.
But it never does cut Anything in half - as a slicer seems to do whenever given half a chance (remember how the narn ships looked after being hit with slicer beams).

True enough, one reason that I have little problem calling it a light slicer beam.

With the sole exception of being blue instead of purple, the beam looks (has the same pattern in the beam)
Actually the "bright core and surrounding nebulous effect" pattern is rather common to many B5 show beams - the only thing where the Shadow beam is truly different is that it is a bit more different in color then the others which use two rather similar colors...

Again, little argument except to say that it would be easier to argue that they were different had there been different effects used for the morphology of the beam

and acts exactly the same as a Shadow battlecrab's slicer beam while having similar relative power (rough guess based on the immediacy of the Whitestar's destruction).
Not so - a heavy laser also did enough damage to cripple a WhiteStar, so I wouldn't say a "blue beam" needs truly ancient level damage - Minbari level seemes enough.
Look at what you're writing right there - you say a ShadOmega has twice to four times the firepower of a true Shadow Battlecrab!!

Not exactly, since there's really no good way to determine relative power. We do see a complete vaporization of the Whitestar, we have not seen EF weapons commonly do that type of damage in one clean shot.

I guess I fail to see why calling them light molecular slicers was a poor choice. Heck, I'm not sure what else they could have called them.
Poor choice because it set a bad precedent.

Also, if you look at the B5W stats, LMSB's can fire every turn, while the big blue beams of the ShadOmega obviously need some recharge time - just like common laser cannons.

I guess I fail to see why it's a bad precedent. We have a ship, obviously heavily modified with Shadow-tech. We have what look like common EF weapons mounts firing beams that behave exactly like Shadow weapons with the exception of being a different color. This is on a ship heavily modifed with Shadow Technology (and there have been different pronouncements from BP on this ship as to exactly how widespread the tech was) that seems to fire weapons similar to those on Shadow ships. I'd argue that it takes more fuzzy maneuvering to call them something else. In addition, we see one Shadow Omega in a rather quick sequence firing a beam, tracking it, then firing immediately after that first beam stops from the same mount.

As for the powering of ancient weaponry, well, frankly, power is power. Maybe a EA reactor couldn't power a full slicer; I see no reason why they couldn't power a smaller, weaker version of the same technology.
Not really. Oh, maybe a big EA reactor could power One tiny little slicer beam, but not more. You see, even ancients must follow the laws of nature (though they do get to play with technology that can bend them slightly), and a weapon that puts out a big boom needs to power that destructive force somehow; and the bigger it's punch the more power it'll eat.

I didn't write this, but I'll comment anyways. We have no idea at all the power requirements for a Shadow slicer beam. It's a fair assumption that it requires more power. However, does anyone actually know what the power source on those Shadow Omegas was? We do know that there are shots of Shadow Omegas firing continuously from all of their weapons ports (couple of fly-bys) with shots that will single kill a Whitestar. That is much more power from an Omega chassis than we've seen before. we simply have no idea what was changed on those ships.

And we have a plot in crusade telling us the whole power of the gigantic Excalibur for a whole minute is needed to recharge an Vorlon gun for a single shot. Now, even if we assume that this vorlon gun is a bit bigger and more power hungry than a LMSB, it still makes little sense that an common EA reactor could power multiple slicers at all. Of course, there would have been a way around this - AoG could have declared Shadow guns to have their own internal shadowtech power supply (and would have been backed up by a line of text from "infection"), but since they choose to do the Shadows with an reactor system and power distribution like all other races in their game, giving the ancient weapons a power stat just like others, well...

A bit bigger? The gun is designed to take out fleets for heaven's sake. It is much more powerful in description than anything that we see on a Shadow-Omega or even a Battlecrab. Perhaps also of importance is that the Shadow-Omegas may well have been built with actual Shadow help, certainly they don't seem to have built anymore once the Shadows left and the Warlock doesn't seem to have the same tracking blue beams. One can easily use that to argue that at least some of the tech on the Shadow Omegas was not reproducable. Makes a case that EF didn't fully understand what was on the ship, although that's pure supposition.

[
quote]And why wouldn't the Shadows give Clarke a good level of tech? It looks like they were setting up Humanity to be their next servant race, alongside the Drakh.
Sure, maybe. But not at first - they wouldn't give them their best toys before they proved their dedication - or do you think the Shadows are stupid??
And from the flashbacks in Crusade it would seem they later gave the humans even more tech to play with (even though they just didn't manage to make it work properly). I have no problem with the purple beam from the ShadowHybrid to be a MSB, as it for one displayed more destructive power then a normal younger race beam (vaporizing not a small medium class ship like a WhiteStar but a full Omega destroyer in one shot) and for another it Was shadow-purple.[/quote]

See, this is where I have trouble with the argument. The Cerebus was destroyed in 2258 (season 2) while the Technomages were fleeing. That means that EF had a fully-fledged Shadow prototype firing slicer beams TWO YEARS before we saw the Shadow Omegas. Obviously, either the Shadows were dumping technology on them very early or the humans were figuring it out awfully fast. In light of that, I find it hard to argue against EF having access to slicer beams in plenty of time to mount them on a Shadow Omega. Heck, they had two years to perfect and refine the design.

But I have a problem with people making blue beams into slicer beams. Because when you have only screen evidence to go by, it makes sense to go by it. And since there's only three things that screen evidence can tell you (type of damage - beam, pulse, blast, etc.; color of energy - red, green, blue, purple, etc.; and effect - scorched paint, explosion, ship vaporized or cun in half, etc.) I dislike it when two beams that are a completely dfifferent color are made "brothers" in technology.
Fair enough, I generally do as well unless I can reasonably see a connection.
Cousins I have no problem with - hence my calling them "Multiphased
Beams" and assuming that was the weapon system the Shadows used in their infancy, later developing the "Molecular Slicer Beam" and "Multiphased Cutter" from it...
Also fair enough. However, if we accept that it is a EF derived slicer beam than it's semantics. To me, it's like arguing that the Narn lasers shouldn't be called lasers becuase they're modified from the Centauri lasers that they started with. I think calling it a light beam makes an effective serparation from the standard slicer beams without committing AoG's all to common sin of inventing 20 new weapons every book. For once, they DIDN'T invent a new weapon when an existing one fit fairly well.
I also have no problem with these beams being powerful - Minbari green beams should also be powerful IMO (more powerful then in B5W, one of the changes I like in Mongoose's stuff); and I'd have no problem with the ShadOmega big blue beams being even a bit more powerful then Minbari big green beams.

Agreed whole-heartedly about the Minbari weapons. I understand the desire to make the Minbari more playable. I don't agree with it. Represent what's on the show.

Frankly, if you want to be a strict canonist about it, one could make the point to simply have made it a standard Shadow slicer beam. After all, it cuts through Whitestars like the proverbial hot knife through butter. I'd asume that they hedged a bit and made it a light slicer to prevent some of the howls about giving EF full Shadow Technology.
Hell, after your reasoning almost everyone shoudl have slicer beams! Look at the many other things that can cut through a poor little WhiteStar like butter? Do the Centauri ships that shoot the one carrying Delenn to pieces in hyperspace also have ancient-level weaponry? Do the raiders that wreck the one coming to tell the IA about the Enphili? Do the Minbari who can fire a green beam that can even (of the horror) cut off a Sharlin's tail fin?

Had they been firing a beam that destroyed it in one shot while whipping about the screen I might say just that. Again, the weapon that the Shadow-Omegas use in all respects but color behaves like no weapon that we've seen more than the Slicer Beams.
Or do all those millenia extra tech development the Shadows had actually mean something, and could it be that their technology really is a bit more advanced then that of your common player character? I realize it must be a hard concept to wrap one's mind around if you are of the "whatta you want - beams are all the same anyway" school of throught...

I'll assume that wasn't meant to be insulting. Beams aren't the same, actually the weapons in B5 seem to be fairly well seperated into groups. However, we can either say that the EF came up with a new weapon that we've never seen before or since that just so happens to act the same as a Shadow Slicer weapon and just so happens to be on a ship that incorporates Shadow Technology and just happens to come about 2 years after the same military was building Shadow knock-offs with accepted Shadow beams and just happens to come from a race that is in a serious alliance with the Shadows and take the straightforward approach that it is (just perhaps) some derivation of the weapon. Or we can discount all of that and say that it's the wrong color. Sorry, but the pro-slicer beam tally board seems to have a lot more data in it.

Strict canonistic would have made it an powerful weapon, true, but not that powerful; and certainly not a true slicer beam because it Just Is Not Purple!

Note that AoG differentiated it from the typical Shadow weapon by calling it a light (hence less capable) version. That's one of the reasons that I take the fluff in Bab 5 games very seriously, because they are the only official source of information on most of these subjects. We will never know the capabilities of the Shadow-Omega except by what's in the game systems. I had constant on-line arguments about AoG's game because I wanted to see a strict simulation of the game. OTOH, they wanted to make a game system that incorporated as much of B5 as possible without sacrificing perceived playability. In some respects, that's a shame because their fluff is now canon. Don't get me started on some of the GROPOS drag-out fights that I and others lost. Now, some of the same silly AFV's and OOB's are now enshrined as canon and have to be lived with.

Matt
 
I noticed that there has been a lot of discussion about the "Shadows" giving Clark's forces tech.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but the Shadows left for the rim at the end of Season 3? / 4? The Human civil war (Clark's War) went through the next season (year).

Note: One problem I always had was how quickly they seemed to be able to build ships. 1,000 White Stars in a year or so. How many Shadow Omegas in another year (more or less). The rebuilding of the Narn fleet after their freedom.

The Shadow Omega / White Star battle was just before the main attack on earth, right?

My guess is that the former allies of the Shadows were the ones giving Clark the tech and might have been passing on the BIG toys instead of the little ones in order to get revenge on Sheridan and the others who made the Shadows leave.

Just my .02 Credits.
 
El Cid said:
My guess is that the former allies of the Shadows were the ones giving Clark the tech and might have been passing on the BIG toys instead of the little ones in order to get revenge on Sheridan and the others who made the Shadows leave.
This is a good thought; I haven't considered it before, but it makes sense.

Concerning the debate of the blue 'sweeping' beams on the Shadomega's destroying a White Star in one shot, not true. I specifically remember a white star shrugging off such a hit as it is sweeping by the shadomega with the rest of the white star wedge. A little flash of light and poof, the white star was still there. No cutting, no major damage.

I always took the turreted mounted blue beams to be highly upgraded particle beams. Those fire every round. They also have a bit of a range restriction as did the beams on the show. None of the turreted beams engaged the white stars at long range.

Now there's my two cents.
 
Dag'Nabbit said:
El Cid said:
My guess is that the former allies of the Shadows were the ones giving Clark the tech and might have been passing on the BIG toys instead of the little ones in order to get revenge on Sheridan and the others who made the Shadows leave.
This is a good thought; I haven't considered it before, but it makes sense.

Concerning the debate of the blue 'sweeping' beams on the Shadomega's destroying a White Star in one shot, not true. I specifically remember a white star shrugging off such a hit as it is sweeping by the shadomega with the rest of the white star wedge. A little flash of light and poof, the white star was still there. No cutting, no major damage.

Incorrect, sorry. In the episode, only two times does the blue sustained beam hit a Whitestar, at 35:16 and 35:18 into the episode. Several times yellow pulse-style bolt hit Whitestars, you're probably thinking of the sequence at 34:27 to 34:29 where a Whitestar in the foreground takes several yellow pulse hits around the rear port-side of the hull. Actually, most of the impacts on Whitestars in the episode are from T-Bolts, at 33:48, 34:03, 34:14, and 34:06. We alo see a single Whitestar explode at 35:24 after it flies into a large explosion coming from the front of a destructing Shadow-Omega.

Two other things that may be of interest. One is that, suprisingly, the Shadow-Omega beams miss a lot. In fact, we see them sweeping all over the place and see a grand total of two actual impacts. To be blunt, their weapons may be powerful but their targetting sucks. Also, the average blue sustained beam lasts from 3-4 seconds before it fades out, in two instances the next beam fires from the same emplacement in just a hair under one second. Thus, recharge time is negligable for these weapons, at least the ones in the rotating emplacements on the top and botom of the hull.

Like I alluded to earlier, I've spent way too much time going through every episode on DVD and recording every weapon discharge and what damage, if any, it visibly made when it hit on what type of craft. I've also taken screen-caps of every instance that I've found of a capital ship near another or a yardstick (B5 and Starfuries where we know the dimensions) to calculate their most common sizes. My hope is to unroll a comprehensive analysis of every ship in the show so that people writing products will have actual data to use rather than what they remember or what is made up on the net. Interestingly, most of the spacecraft for the first three seasons hold up in weapons fire style and relative size pretty well. This drops off sharply once NDE got a hold of the effects.

Once I get a hold of the fifth season on DVD I'll finally be able to complete this miserable project. . .

Matt
 
El Cid said:
I noticed that there has been a lot of discussion about the "Shadows" giving Clark's forces tech.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but the Shadows left for the rim at the end of Season 3? / 4? The Human civil war (Clark's War) went through the next season (year).

Not quite. The Shadows left for the rim during season 4, four episodes before the appearance of the Shadow-Omegas. It's a shame, since originally season 5 would have been the Earth Civil War and the fourth being the Shadow war.

We actually have three established pieces of information about Shadow-tech in Earthforce. In 2259, a hybrid Shadow-tech vessel, apparently built at a secret EF base, goes nuts and carves up the Omega-class destroyer Cerebus. In late 2261, the forces of President Clarke field the Shadow-Omegas. Then, at the end of 2261, Ivanova trasfers to a new Warlock class ship to begin a 1 year shakedown cruise. These Warlocks are seen to be in widespread service in ACtA and Crusade. We also have a JMS penned short story about them where it is revealed that they have a lot of Shadow tech, so much so that the ship actually qualifies as alive.

So, from what we know, Shadow-tech prototypes were being tested the year Sheridan took command of B5 and had Shadow-Omegas in limited service 2 years later while Warlock class destroyers were just coming off the production line. To my eyes, that seems to show that EF had made huge progress in understanding Shadow-tech very quickly and while they were still active allies of the Shadows themselves. Considering that the Drakh (who were the major hand-servants of the Shadows) blamed the Earth for the loss of their masters so badly that they put into action a plan to kill the entire world I find it a bit unlikely that Shadow servants did much to help EF overall much. The whole point of the Drakh plague was that they wanted revenge on the EA.

Now, they could well have been supporting small splinter groups inside of EF and who knows what type of tech they might have shared then. Had Crusade finished, we might actually know. Now we just have speculation that may or may not be right!

Matt
 
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