Raiders- a competitive force?

[catbarf]

Hi, I just got this game, cand I was wondering whther or not the Raiders are competitive or not. They don't really have any big ships (other than the Endgame) and rely on fighters much more than guns. Can they actually compete on an equal level with the other races?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The Battlewagon is a really good raid level ship, and you get a lot of Delta-V flights for a patrol point. Double-Vs pack quite a wallop for anti-ship duties but they're fodder in dogfights.

At low priority I'd say Raiders have a decent chance against most other races.

Also, the great thing about Raiders is how creative you can be with them. You can include Raiders in a League of Non-Aligned Worlds fleet as mercenaries to bulk out your numbers or provide some fighter cover, and you can always vary the Raiders list for one-off campaigns or special scenarios with things like Clark loyalist EA renegades, the Ghosts of Omelos list from S&P, Centauri raiders harrassing the Narn or ISA, or anything else you can dream up.

 

[Kadorak]

Yeah, the biggest problem with Raiders is lack of variety, especially on the 'basic' list. But you do get some quite nice ships for their PL, I generally think of Raider ships as being bad versions of a ship one PL higher, IE the Battle Wagon is built like a Battle PL ship in design style but has low enough tech to be Raid PL. Even the new Arma Raider Nova reminds me of a low power War PL ship.

As it might interest you and it's always nice to plug oneself, I've been writing off and on an unofficial supplement adding a lot of the B5W Raiders ships to ACTA. Obviously this won't help at official tournaments though and you'd have to get your local group to accept it; but when/if it's released you might like looking through it.

 

[catbarf]

a lot of the B5W Raiders ships

What were these? I've looked on the AoG site but I only see the same Strike Carrier and Battlewagon we know and love. Do you have a link?

 

[Kadorak]

They were in the "Raiders and Privateers" supplement. It's probably the most available of the old B5W supplements, and there's a sequel released for free online (it was finished but not printed yet when AOG lost the license) at http://www.agentsofgaming.com/b5wrpp2.htm

 

[LordClinto]

I played 2 5 Point Raid games last night, Raiders vs Crusade EA.

My Fleet:
1 Nova
1 Battlewagon
2 Strike Carriers
2 Drazi Darkhawks? (skirmish missle boats)

EA Fleet
1 Marathon
1 Chronos
1 Explorer (he liked it for the fighters & damage soaking)
1 Delphi

First off, this was my opponents 3rd & 4th game, but he's a 40k & BFG veteran.

First game his Marathon went down on turn 2 due to many lucky crits & after that it was just down hill for him.

Second game his Marathon destroyed both strike carriers & one of the Darkhawks before it was immobilized. His Delphi received 2 crits from one of the strike carriers blowing up negating it's shooting for the entire game (he just couldn't repair anything at all).

Both games it came down to him with his explorer and most of my fleet remaining, I have to give him credit on his choice of the explorer, it escape into hyperspace both games, relatively undamaged.

I think after a few more games against some other fleets I may start making a raider fleet (If only for the conversion possibilities). And yes they do fall upon their fighters to do alot of the work, but the fact that every ships gets some works for me! And I love the Raiders Nova.

 

[catbarf]

Let's see, I thought that you can only take the Nova in the (insert name) Crusader's list? And where does it say that you can take fleets from other races, like those Drazi ships?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

The "Raiders" fleet there would actually be a League of Non-Aligned Worlds fleet. Raiders are considered a League race, so you can use Raiders ships in a League fleet.

Conversely, you can also use League ships in a Raiders fleet, as long as you abide by the combined League fleet rules in SFoS.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Let's see, I thought that you can only take the Nova in the (insert name) Crusader's list? And where does it say that you can take fleets from other races, like those Drazi ships?

there's a raider-specific Nova refit in Armageddeon, totally seperate from the Argent's Crusaders list.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I want to do a Clark-loyalist EA/Raiders fleet. If I had a gaming group, that is. I think that'd be pretty cool, especially for campaigns. Not an original idea of mine by any means, but still cool.

 

[lastbesthope]

MSprange has often said that the Raiders were purposely designed as an underdog fleet.

LBH

 

[Lord David the Denied]

They'd have to be, wouldn't they? If they had the capabilities of a front-line military they wouldn't bother with piracy, they'd be conquering their own stellar empires...

 

[Calistan]

I didn't think that Raiders just did piracy. I thought the raiders also represented the mercenary groups and minor independent colonies. I could see Raider factions pickup up low tech ships that the major governments will get rid of with the new waves of technology.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

A few bits of cast-off EarthForce tech would be handy for that, really, but what can you do? For Raiders like that, just mix the list up with some low-level EA ships. Tethys and Hermes primarily, I'd say, and swap the Starfury flights for Delta-Vs.

 

[combatdroid113]

A few bits of cast-off EarthForce tech would be handy for that, really, but what can you do? For Raiders like that, just mix the list up with some low-level EA ships. Tethys and Hermes primarily, I'd say, and swap the Starfury flights for Delta-Vs.

what would look cool minature wise would be flghts of raider double V fighters mixed on the same stand with starfurys. Perhaps a escourt/bomber flight with its own special rules. I just want to get hold of a Space liner and convert it into a Battlewagon

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Why Starfuries and Delta-Vs? Neither are anti-ship fighters...

 

[combatdroid113]

sorry double Vs

 

[Triggy]

They'd have to be, wouldn't they? If they had the capabilities of a front-line military they wouldn't bother with piracy, they'd be conquering their own stellar empires...

This doesn't mean that individually Raider ships should be underpowered for their PL.

Anyway, it's the lack of choice that kills Raiders, not the fact the ships aren't any good (they are for the most part). I suppose this aspect actually does work as a good way of making the fleet an underdog list without artificially neutering them.

 

[LordClinto]

I didn't think that Raiders just did piracy. I thought the raiders also represented the mercenary groups and minor independent colonies. I could see Raider factions pickup up low tech ships that the major governments will get rid of with the new waves of technology.

That would be cool! A crusade era raiders fleet with cast off / obsolete refits of mothballed ships.

Example: refitted Tethys, Artemis, Olympi, Oracles, Sagittarius, Hyperion (non-used variants only), Avengers & Orestes. In Service dates of say 2266 or 2267+.

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

I didn't think that Raiders just did piracy. I thought the raiders also represented the mercenary groups and minor independent colonies. I could see Raider factions pickup up low tech ships that the major governments will get rid of with the new waves of technology.

That would be cool! A crusade era raiders fleet with cast off / obsolete refits of mothballed ships.

Example: refitted Tethys, Artemis, Olympi, Oracles, Sagittarius, Hyperion (non-used variants only), Avengers & Orestes. In Service dates of say 2266 or 2267+.

I've been playign around with the idea of doing up rules for Raiders getting their hands on some of the older small ships from various fleets, but then giving them a random roll to see what weapons they have fitted (to represent them purchasing or stealing mothballed ships, and not knowing exactly what's fitted to them before the fact, and then workign to restore any lost weaponry)