Questions on Skyriders

[Ghost Bear]

I've just been looking over the stats for these. They're great idea, by the way - although if I recall, the Brotherhood never actually built any Skyriders in the gamebooks, so it was an interesting take on them. I would have expected the Magician of Dessi class to get one as part of their advancement rather than the Brotherhood. But that's not important one way or the other.

My question is about their speed. In the books, I always envisioned them moving quite a bit faster than 10 miles per hour. Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit slow? I'm sure there was a good reason for cutting their speed down, which I've not even considered, or perhaps my impression from the books is actually wrong.

Yes, I know it'd be pedantic if I was querying the rules for gaming's sake, but I think Skyriders are great, and I'm interested from a purely background point of view.

Oh, and speaking of flying stuff. Are there any Good/Balance aligned creatures similar to Kraan/Zlaanbeast apart from the Pegasi. I love the idea of my Kai Lord character sometime in the future bonding with one as his mount. Do giant eagles exist, for instance?

 

[Nyxator]

In book 15 the Skyrider travels from the Kai Monastery to Vadera (nearly 1800 miles) in 30 hours. So yes, it's definitely faster than that.

On the other hand, Acraban's flying ship matches the description of the skyriders featured in the RPG (Actually it is a bit slower: Sheasu-Seroa in 12 days, that's roughly 5 miles per hour, a bit more if we count some possible but unlikely stops). Personally, I think that Brotherhood mages should be able to build a flying ship only after MS 5070, or at least after Banedon comes back with his from Dessi. Also, the level requirement should be much higher that 10, otherwise they would become too common.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ghost Bear]

In book 15 the Skyrider travels from the Kai Monastery to Vadera (nearly 1800 miles) in 30 hours. So yes, it's definitely faster than that.

On the other hand, Acraban's flying ship matches the description of the skyriders featured in the RPG (Actually it is a bit slower: Sheasu-Seroa in 12 days, that's roughly 5 miles per hour, a bit more if we count some possible but unlikely stops). Personally, I think that Brotherhood mages should be able to build a flying ship only after MS 5070, or at least after Banedon comes back with his from Dessi. Also, the level requirement should be much higher that 10, otherwise they would become too common.

Hope this helps.

It does. The discrepancy is obvious really, now that I think about it.

Banedon's Skyrider was built by the Elder Magi, so it's naturally going to be pretty darned good. the Cloud-Dancer (Acraban's ship) was built by the people of Casiorn (Book 18) and doesn't have the tooled up funky Elder Magi magic. It makes sense that the Brotherhood ones would fall somewhere in between these two extremes.

Thanks for the help.

-GB

 

[Nyxator]

Err... not exactly.
Acraban's ship is the Starstrider. The book tells nothing about its origins but we know for sure that Brotherhood Mages have a deep knowledge of how it works (I won't say more to avoid spoilers), so it's not unlikely that it was build in Toran.

The Cloud-Dancer is at least as fast as the Skyrider, if not faster (Kai Monastery-Boradon in 14 hours).

 

[Ghost Bear]

Bah, it's been ages since I've read Mydnight's Hero (the only NO book I've read featuring Acraban). I thought he'd been allowed to use Banedon's ship.

I now can see why Brotherhood Mages in the RPG have their own ships.

And I see how the gamebooks show that they're slower than the Skyrider.

-GB

 

[Anonymous]

In book 15 the Skyrider travels from the Kai Monastery to Vadera (nearly 1800 miles) in 30 hours. So yes, it's definitely faster than that.

On the other hand, Acraban's flying ship matches the description of the skyriders featured in the RPG (Actually it is a bit slower: Sheasu-Seroa in 12 days, that's roughly 5 miles per hour, a bit more if we count some possible but unlikely stops). Personally, I think that Brotherhood mages should be able to build a flying ship only after MS 5070, or at least after Banedon comes back with his from Dessi. Also, the level requirement should be much higher that 10, otherwise they would become too common.

Hope this helps.

Actually Nyxator, I too at first thought the skyriders ought to be higher than 10 level. But then once you think about it, you realize first, this shows the rarity of brotherhood wizo's, and all magik users in magnamund. Level 10 wizard in magnamund is a big deal; a force to be reckoned with, unlike most other fantasy rpg's.

Also, in the books, banedon is level 10 when he uses it if I recall correct. ((he is level 5 in book 1, and so level 10 in book 10, considering that deverl levelled him up at the same rate as lonewolf.))

 

[Nyxator]

Ok, makes sense to me.

 

[ParanoidObsessive]

Actually Nyxator, I too at first thought the skyriders ought to be higher than 10 level. But then once you think about it, you realize first, this shows the rarity of brotherhood wizo's, and all magik users in magnamund. Level 10 wizard in magnamund is a big deal; a force to be reckoned with, unlike most other fantasy rpg's.

Also, in the books, banedon is level 10 when he uses it if I recall correct. ((he is level 5 in book 1, and so level 10 in book 10, considering that deverl levelled him up at the same rate as lonewolf.))

Assuming that Banedon was off adventuring nearly as much as Lone Wolf was (a safe assumption), he was effectively 9th level in Shadows on the Sand. That's already one level lower than the one given in the RPG.

Banedon, on the other hand, was GIVEN his ship by the Magicians of Dessi, in exchange for his help in some matter (which was never explicitly mentioned, if I remember).

Personally, I would have had the rules so that a Brother must be at least level 8 to FLY one of these ships, but that he can't BUILD one until at least level 14 or so (the magic behind it being VERY potent. If it was THAT easy to make, there'd be flying ships all over Magnamund - and the books seem to imply that they're not THAT common).

On the other hand, I'd take them away from the Brotherhood entirely based on the setting in the RPG - while it's been established that the Magicians of Dessi have had the art of making these ships for centuries (there's a flying ship at the Temple of Ohrido), the Brotherhood's first ship doesn't come until after Banedon gets it - and Lone Wolf acts ASTOUNDED to see it the first time.

I CERTAINLY don't like the rule that says a Brother MUST build one of these ships at level 10.

So, as a revision of what was presented, I'd say make it so that the Magicians of Dessi possess the knowledge to build a skyship, and that they can choose to do so at level 14... but they are by no means required to do so. Meanwhile, a member of the Brotherhood, Vakeros, or Dessi classes can fly them at level 8 or higher. I'd even add in that Kai can also fly one at level 12 or higher (Lone Wolf DID fly one alone at level 15 in the end of book 8, and later in book 17).

It's up to GM common sense whether or not other mystic classes (Wytch, Cener, etc) would be able to fly these ships at level 8, a higher level, or not at all.

After 5075 or so, assume that the Brotherhood gains the ability to make Skyriders as well, but that their versions are inferior (they're still perfecting the process). This is where the 10 mph/60 mph difference comes from.


This even opens up the door to creating a new "prestige" character class - the Shipbuilders of Dessi. We can almost assume that such an insular people would never need a massive fleet of ships (which is what one ship per mage would give you), but a small sub-set of them could easily dedicate themselves to building skyships. This shows how the Dessi designs can be so much better than the Brotherhood ones, and provides someone to go to for repairs if your skyship "breaks down", somehow.

They'd probably be ordinary Magicians of Dessi which start to specialize after level 8 or 10, giving up normal class bonuses in favor of feats relating to building the ships. It might even be possible for such a character to reach level 20, and build a floating palace/city/etc...

Keeping in mind that when the mayor of Casiorn had Cloud Dancer built, there was help from Magicians of Dessi - they probably just sent along some shipwrights to draw up the blueprints and handle the magic parts.

 

[Anonymous]

Actually, I think the ones who do the actual flying of Skyrider and Cloud-Dancer are usually not the wizards, but the Bor Dwarves such as Nolrim who crew the ships. So I'd say anyone can use a ship, so long as they've got it crewed by the redshirt NPCs.

 

[Anonymous]

Perhaps if assume that the Skyrider type ships mentioned in the rule book are an average, and that better or worse ones exist.
A BOTCS will gain the knowledge to construct such a ship at lvl 10, but if he chooses to do so straight away it will be inferior to the standard type i.e. smaller and slower.
As his skills improve, he gains the ability to make better vessles.
Alternativly, to make a better ship he may need to take an appropiate skill check, which may mean learning craft (shipwright).

 

[Anonymous]

Nolrim and others can pilot the ship.

You probably have to merely be trained HOW to do it, but I don't think it has anything to do with your magical skills, since Nolrim doesn't have any.

 

[Anonymous]

Nolrim and others can pilot the ship.

You probably have to merely be trained HOW to do it, but I don't think it has anything to do with your magical skills, since Nolrim doesn't have any.

That we know of...

-GB