Pilots use thoughts to control aircraft

S

sideranautae

Mongoose
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http://www.dvice.com/2014-5-28/brain-controlled-flight-now-possible

I first heard about this over a decade ago when the USAF started development. Appears that it is going more "mainstream". This is TL 7. I figure by TL 10 Starship bridge personnel would be using these in conjunction with holo-touch screens for back up.

Switching pilot mod to Int rather than Dex.
 
Probably needs to be refined, especially for more complex manoeuvring; perhaps, for the best results you need to physically jack in.
 
Depends; if you're manouvring in such a way that reflexes are the defining factor, I'd still say DEX - I agree with INT for a piloting check when you're pre-planning the manouvre, or flying by software (i.e. most of the time) rather than "oh-crud-oh-crud-the-highport-just-blew-up-need-to-avoid-the-debris" where reacting quickly is much more important than reacting intelligently...

But still an incredibly useful development - the more means of convenient input a system has, the better - even if you're still actually flying with HOTAS but 'neural input' lets you control what information is shown on the displays and/or where your sensors are being focused, for example.
 
You probably also need some kind of filter, so that when you're distracted, the interface doesn't interpret that as weapons lock on the nearest aircraft.
 
Ever hear the expression "think before you speak"? How often is acting impulsively instead of thinking things through a good idea? Talking about everyday piloting not some disaster/combat situation. Not sure if something like this might lead to more harm than good if it instantly acts on every impulse one might have.
 
I recall in 1982, during Firefox, Clint Eastwood having to think in the correct language, "Fire rearward missile." I always thought that really can't be a sensible way of firing weapons, I think the same would apply to manoeuvring a spaceship, too dangerous to pilot on thought/impulse/instinct alone. Still, it is very interesting and I'm sure there could be some applications that will filter into my campaign, most especially for the remote operation of drones. And the hats are pretty cool too.
 
mr31337 said:
I recall in 1982, during Firefox, Clint Eastwood having to think in the correct language, "Fire rearward missile." I always thought that really can't be a sensible way of firing weapons, I think the same would apply to manoeuvring a spaceship,
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Not how it works. Not language based. It is MUCH faster than physically moving controls. The nerve channel lag time alone tells one that. Basic physiology. (nerve impulses travel MUCH more slowly than electronic impulses) The person using hands is MUCH slower than the person using this type of device.

Best not to look to Hollywood movies to understand science. ;)
 
You say that isn't how it works. Can you provide details & links to studies?

Your article simply refers to 'brain waves', which is especially unhelpful. As a psychologist I'd love to know more please. It's a fascinating subject.
 
I'll let the players use one stat bonus; dex, int or edu, for piloting rolls. Makes the most sense, re piloting styles.
 
dragoner said:
I'll let the players use one stat bonus; dex, int or edu, for piloting rolls. Makes the most sense, re piloting styles.
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Good idea. Different pilot can use different control interfaces too. Some may dislike neural while others prefer "hands off". Although, I don't see "touch screen" type controls being eliminated in any craft. Those would always be considered default I think.
 
Here's a more detailed article from one of the universities responsible:
http://www.tum.de/en/about-tum/news/press-releases/short/article/31531/

mr31337 said:
I recall in 1982, during Firefox, Clint Eastwood having to think in the correct language, "Fire rearward missile." I always thought that really can't be a sensible way of firing weapons
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No, firing a missile backwards from an aircraft probably wouldn't work very well. ;)

I can see a rig like this being part of Imperial Navy training. You're led into a simulator, the funny hat is put on your head, and you're asked to fly the simulated ship through an obstacle course. If you succeed, you are shot, because the funny hat is in fact nothing more than a funny hat and you've just proved that you're a psionicist. :twisted:

More seriously: from that article, what they're working on now is feedback. If you fly an aircraft using normal controls you can feel resistance as you move the control stick, giving an indication when you're pushing the aircraft too hard. The researchers want to provide some sort of feedback to the brain control to replace that.

CosmicGamer said:
Not sure if something like this might lead to more harm than good if it instantly acts on every impulse one might have.
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From the university article:
With brain control, flying, in itself, could become easier. This would reduce the work load of pilots and thereby increase safety. In addition, pilots would have more freedom of movement to manage other manual tasks in the cockpit.
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Only the very clearly defined electrical brain impulses required for control are recognized by the brain-computer interface.
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AdrianH said:
More seriously: from that article, what they're working on now is feedback. If you fly an aircraft using normal controls you can feel resistance as you move the control stick, giving an indication when you're pushing the aircraft too hard. The researchers want to provide some sort of feedback to the brain control to replace that.
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Fortunately that isn't an issue with spacecraft (or grav vehicles for that matter). There will be no "stick & rudder" in the first place and no feedback. Even in modern jets this isn't an issue as you can't push it too hard. Everything runs through a computer that won't allow a pilot to do that.
 
Isn't this the precursor to Traveller's Neural Link/Jack?

Isn't it defined as subconscious control? When I type at this keyboard I am not telling my fingers what to do with thought or verbal commands, I'm sure the psychologists or such amongst us could tell me what the actual process for commanding my fingers to type these words are but for the purpose of this thread, it's something I've learnt and can do. We're not talking verbal commands. In IMB's Culture books the Minds have to slow down massively to talk to humans and humans simply can't keep up with the thought processes of the Minds. I can see how a neural link would immerse a character in the task with potential detrimental effects to their interaction with the physical world and allow an increase in speed over a purely physical interface. Touch screen panels I'd see as replaced by virtual images fed thru the link. Why nobble the system and slow things down by going back to physical interaction? The ships sensors could also feed into the link adding to the immersion or perhaps creating the potential for overload.
 
sideranautae said:
Fortunately that isn't an issue with spacecraft (or grav vehicles for that matter). There will be no "stick & rudder" in the first place and no feedback.
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You know this cos you've "flown" a space ship right? Or was it a grav vehicle?
 
hiro said:
Isn't it defined as subconscious control?
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No, it is conscious control.

hiro said:
When I type at this keyboard I am not telling my fingers what to do with thought or verbal commands,
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Yes, you are. You just do it so fast using predefined (from practice) neural pathways that you can't parse out the individual thoughts giving the commands. (verbal commands aren't part of this. It is language independent)
 
hiro said:
You know this cos you've "flown" a space ship right? Or was it a grav vehicle?
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No. Because I understand physics AND current control interfaces (including spacecraft) and those will NOT be going back down in TL as TL goes up. AND, I am a pilot. :lol:

Now, run along and quit trying to troll my threads, again.
 
Hush now with your silly (troll) comments and boasts. No one cares. Discuss the game.

Feedback may well be more important with advances in control interfaces removing the pilot from the physical effect of flight (thru whatever medium or lack thereof)

Current fly by wire controls give feedback to the pilot. They aren't simply joysticks that flop about. You're right, the flight control computers limit the effect the pilot can have on the plane but thats to stop the pilot from causing damage to themselves more so than the plane. The planes can tolerate higher G than the pilots can hence part of the move to unmanned craft. But you knew all that didn't you?

Using Int and Edu seems appropriate to the pilot skill as the physicality of control is removed.
 
Gentlemen. Please retreat to your corners and let's all use our indoor voices, shall we?
This thread's now being watched. If the off topic sniping continues, this topic will be closed. Now please return to the topic being discussed. Keep the personal stuff off the thread.
 
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