pak'ma'ra Fleet - Opinions Wanted!

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

We'll be moving onto the pak'ma'ra in the 2e playtests soon. Are there any ships/rules for this fleet you would like us to pay particular attention to? How have you found them in your games thus far?

 

[H]

Hey Matt. I haven't played them, but I have witnessed them in action, and the Porfatis is an absolute monster, a real, REAL monster! which in itself isn't so bad, but when you consider how many you get for the cost of say a WS fighter, they could maybe do with less flights per wing, or being made more expensive for a wing perhaps? the other ships seem pretty well balanced, the redundancy seems a nice touch, well thought out, bit of a pain when you get hip by a whopping beam I guess, but it might save your ugly pak ass!
Otherwise, maybe a few more ships, how about an Avioki variant for the battle level? Stick on some plasma cannons and torps instead of the Graviton stuff, and you have a fine looking battleship. . . in Yellow

 

[Burger]

Yeah I'd agree with hiff, the fighters are very nasty and you get a lot for a point. The closest thing power-wise is a Sky Serpent, and you only get 2 of those per wing.

 

[Morgoth]

Having used the fighters they are great anti capital ships but get clean blown out of the sky by other fighters and the incredibly poor dodge does make up the high hull. But I do have to agree perhaps just 3 per wing.

 

[Silvereye]

Otherwise, maybe a few more ships, how about an Avioki variant for the battle level? Stick on some plasma cannons and torps instead of the Graviton stuff, and you have a fine looking battleship. . . in Yellow

The other is to "Pak-up" (kind of like pimping I guess) a Batrado (the Brakiri have then done most of the work creating cargo space), a T'Rann (think of all that junk you could carry instead of 6 Frazi wings and a Hermes (hulls constructed in civillian shipyards).

 

[H]

Pak my Poseidon!

 

[Burger]

Pak up the Vorchan.
Since the Pak escaped from the shackles of slavery (well OK the shackles just kind of fell off), it would make sense the Centauri left some ships behind, even just those that were too damaged to be worthwhile taking with them or some salvageable wrecks.

 

[H]

I think we hijaked this thread, if Only we could Pak it up with some bright yellow, and the smell of rotten badger!

 

[Silvereye]

But by then, it will have had comments in other threads and would take forever to get rid of all the redundant bits. And the smell would no doubt linger in the forum forever.

 

[Dies Irae]

Having seen what massed waves of Plasma Torpedoes from a bunch of Plasmahawks does to most ships, I'd like to point out that while still managable in a pak'ma'ra fleet on the grounds that after the torpedo barrage, most pak'ma'ra generally look at you and go "Crap. They're still alive. Now what?", any semblence of game balance goes straight down the toilet once the rest of the League get in on the fun.

Watching Porfatis flights make attack runs on capital ships under Delta V or Kotha escort (from Milani Carriers or Battlewagons) is terrifying. Fighters that move to intercept get jumped by the free fighters and then are promptly shot down by the Porfatis Anti-Fighter Weapons. With CapShip level weaponry necessary to drop the Hull 6 Porfatis, players were typically left with the nasty choice between blasting at the marauding fighters or blazing away at the rest of the League fleet. My gut feeling is that the number of Porfatis you get on their own is alright in a pak'ma'ra fleet, but becomes scary when you field a League fleet to cover their weaknesses.

The Gentle Beings trait at the moment doesn't really hurt the pak'ma'ra that much either. Either way, most of the actions you really want to perform (Concentrate All Firepower, All Power To Engines, All Stop, Close All Blast Doors And Activate Defence Grid) are automatic successes.

Furthermore, the Plasma Torpedo salvoes go from strong to obscene once the Vree and their scouts get in on the act.

Still, it would be nice to see the Thar'not'ak Plasma Cruiser and Resh'kas'u Carrier. Perhaps renamed as a Transport Cruiser and a Fleet Tender to fit in with the pak'ma'ra naming convention.

 

[blackphoenix]

I'd like to see fewer torps and maybe some beams based from the Fuser weapons they once had. Also like to see the Plasma streamers on the Urik'Hals return as well.

As for the plasma cannons, they should match everyone else with the exception of the Mega Plasma Cannon. That one should have the 15" range not their heavy one, but also have SAP and DD

 

[Davesaint]

Matt,

We have played a couple of games with them and have drawn a few conclusions.

First - Races that do not have interceptors are at a serious disadvantage against them. We have not played them against the Narn, but at this time we have a hard time seeing how the Narn can beat the Pak.

Second - Against races that have interceptors, the Pak have serious issues.

The pak fighter is not as bad as some have stated.

My suggestion so far would be to reduce the torps to double damage and maybe increase the number of torps.

Also, the ships need to add some troops. Not many, but some. I don't think any ships should start with Zero troops.

The redundancy factor on the ships is a big deal, especially if you use the drazi hulls that have more than 1 turn. Closed Blast Doors as a Special Action is really a must with these hulls.

We have not run them as a league fleet yet, so we are not sure just how nasty they would be with a couple of Vaarls as scout support. However in concept, we think they will be Nasty.


We do have a question regarding the Crew Quality adjustment. Does this effect their Fighters? In the rule it says ships, but it would seem that this should apply to Aux Craft as well


Dave

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

I think we hijaked this thread, if Only we could Pak it up with some bright yellow, and the smell of rotten badger!

Like this?

 

[CZuschlag]

Davesaint:

Nasty nasty, or Nasty broken?

 

[H]

:lol:

 

[Davesaint]

Davesaint:

Nasty nasty, or Nasty broken?

Assuming that you mean the combined league:

Not sure yet, got to test it out first. Against someone like the Narn, prob. Nasty Broken. Against the EA, Nasty as in tough, but not broken due to interceptors.


Dave

 

[CZuschlag]

I've heard some other information, but has anyone really taken the P'shul'shi out for more than one spin?

 

[H]

I'll actually have a game using my Narn against Pak inthe next week or so, I have an open challenge from the Pak player. will my Dag Kar actually get a run out, just to offer more e-mines to remove the bombers?!

 

[Obsidian]

I tried out the 15 plasmahawk fleet against an EA fleet and while they did manage to take out 2 Hyperions in the first round of firing, it took 2 Squadrons of 6 concentrating fire to get the job done.

The Gentle Beings trait at the moment doesn't really hurt the pak'ma'ra that much either. Either way, most of the actions you really want to perform (Concentrate All Firepower, All Power To Engines, All Stop, Close All Blast Doors And Activate Defence Grid) are automatic successes.

It will become a problem in 2nd Edition though. Concentrate all Firepower is no longer automatic, but you can turn while doing it.

 

[Triggy]

Sounds to me like the biggest problem is mixing the Pak'ma'ra with the rest of the League rather than them being a problem on their own (and this is much the same issue as for everyone else that Vree Vaarls are far too good as a support ship)!

From my point of view, with one or two tweaks here or there maybe but other than that it's mainly concentrating on fighter balance and how they integrate into the League as a whole.