I am in the middle of prepping for running Demo’s at my FLGS (need to finish painting and the layout/printing of my ‘training wheels’ ship cards) and we noticed an issue with the fleet build process. For pick-up games, demos or casual games this will not be an issue. But this will probably blow-up league play.
Before I explain let me define what I mean by league play or tournament play means as the gamers in my part of the world define it. Both leagues and tournaments us official explicitly defined rules by the games companies organized play representative.
For example, if I want to play a Warmachine Game at Wandering Havoc I can, but if I decide to drop in to the Game Matrix way down in the deep deep south of Tacoma ( :wink: ), I can use my existing army lists with no problems since I used the exact same costs and restrictions as they do.
If someone doesn’t live near a game store, they can get the guidance from the "organized play guide", build an Fleet and drive to the local con knowing that his fleet lists and fleet composition will be legal.
So how in the world could I have spotted a major issue with the fleet build process? Just what could it be you ask. Simple, there are no fleet allowances. If I think the D5W is hands down the bestest ship in the game I can munchkin out a fleet of all D5W’s. In pretty much every game that uses a build system they have some kind of allowance that limits the number of various model types to avoid this. After all, when a new class of ship rolls out of the yard all the older types don’t magically go poof and upgrade.
People have mentioned in threads about wanting squadron boxes with the small ships so they can build balanced fleets with enough support ships to justify the heavies. But there are also ongoing discussions where people are not just point squeezing, but they are wringing the rules out dry as they make totally out there ‘power fleets’. Now that is not a bad thing in itself, especially If you are just playing with your circle of friends. But the bigger purpose of organized play hosted at a FLGS (league/tournament) is to not only provide a fun and convenient place for existing players to get together and play, but more importantly it is to introduce the game to new players. And the fastest way to destroy interest in a game is for a new player to be crushed by a power gamer.
The SFU has a rich and established universe, but ACTA:SF is not a dueling or tiny ship action game. It is a fast play fleet action game with an emphasis on FLEET. Looking at the list of ships names from ADB, there were only 5 DFW’s built (excluding variants) so a power fleet like 7 D5W’s becomes ridicules for organized play. It would be like me building a fleet for a Victory at Sea tournament and insisting I can use 6 Bismarck class battlewagons. Just like the real world, in a game you don’t have unlimited availability of hull types. There is a reason frigates, destroyers and light cruisers exist.
I propose an Organized play guide that establishes ‘official’ fleet allowances to govern fleet composition for ‘official’ organized play. To limit power gaming and ensure that players are all on the same page regardless of where they show up to play.
I have read through my sparkling new copies of FC: Klingon Border and SFB: Capt’s Ed Basic Set and they do not contain any kind of Fleet Allowance. But then they are primarily dueling or at least smaller squadron games. ACTA:SF really takes off at 10-12 ships per side, but the very thing that makes it so fun can cripple that fun in a game using fleets of opposite design philosophy.
And remember I said this was for Organized Play such as Leagues, Tournaments and Conventions. No one is trying to tell anyone what to do in their own private games.
Oh and one last thought. Please don't post the inevitable idea of "well just make up your own". That just defeats the core issue of standardizing Organized play regardless of where you are gaming. My idea of a valid Fleet Allowance will most likely differ from yours, but an official ruling by Mongoose is an official ruling.
Well that is how it looks to some of us out here. Thoughts?
Before I explain let me define what I mean by league play or tournament play means as the gamers in my part of the world define it. Both leagues and tournaments us official explicitly defined rules by the games companies organized play representative.
For example, if I want to play a Warmachine Game at Wandering Havoc I can, but if I decide to drop in to the Game Matrix way down in the deep deep south of Tacoma ( :wink: ), I can use my existing army lists with no problems since I used the exact same costs and restrictions as they do.
If someone doesn’t live near a game store, they can get the guidance from the "organized play guide", build an Fleet and drive to the local con knowing that his fleet lists and fleet composition will be legal.
So how in the world could I have spotted a major issue with the fleet build process? Just what could it be you ask. Simple, there are no fleet allowances. If I think the D5W is hands down the bestest ship in the game I can munchkin out a fleet of all D5W’s. In pretty much every game that uses a build system they have some kind of allowance that limits the number of various model types to avoid this. After all, when a new class of ship rolls out of the yard all the older types don’t magically go poof and upgrade.
People have mentioned in threads about wanting squadron boxes with the small ships so they can build balanced fleets with enough support ships to justify the heavies. But there are also ongoing discussions where people are not just point squeezing, but they are wringing the rules out dry as they make totally out there ‘power fleets’. Now that is not a bad thing in itself, especially If you are just playing with your circle of friends. But the bigger purpose of organized play hosted at a FLGS (league/tournament) is to not only provide a fun and convenient place for existing players to get together and play, but more importantly it is to introduce the game to new players. And the fastest way to destroy interest in a game is for a new player to be crushed by a power gamer.
The SFU has a rich and established universe, but ACTA:SF is not a dueling or tiny ship action game. It is a fast play fleet action game with an emphasis on FLEET. Looking at the list of ships names from ADB, there were only 5 DFW’s built (excluding variants) so a power fleet like 7 D5W’s becomes ridicules for organized play. It would be like me building a fleet for a Victory at Sea tournament and insisting I can use 6 Bismarck class battlewagons. Just like the real world, in a game you don’t have unlimited availability of hull types. There is a reason frigates, destroyers and light cruisers exist.
I propose an Organized play guide that establishes ‘official’ fleet allowances to govern fleet composition for ‘official’ organized play. To limit power gaming and ensure that players are all on the same page regardless of where they show up to play.
I have read through my sparkling new copies of FC: Klingon Border and SFB: Capt’s Ed Basic Set and they do not contain any kind of Fleet Allowance. But then they are primarily dueling or at least smaller squadron games. ACTA:SF really takes off at 10-12 ships per side, but the very thing that makes it so fun can cripple that fun in a game using fleets of opposite design philosophy.
And remember I said this was for Organized Play such as Leagues, Tournaments and Conventions. No one is trying to tell anyone what to do in their own private games.
Oh and one last thought. Please don't post the inevitable idea of "well just make up your own". That just defeats the core issue of standardizing Organized play regardless of where you are gaming. My idea of a valid Fleet Allowance will most likely differ from yours, but an official ruling by Mongoose is an official ruling.
Well that is how it looks to some of us out here. Thoughts?
