Oracle Priority Level.

[kinsha]

The Oracle.

I am a fan of specialized ships, in particular EW ships (aka Scouts). After reviewing the stats and compairing with the Delphi, I feel that it is a tad overpriced and redundent.

Both ships are in the same priority level (raid), yet the Oracle outclassed by the Delphi. They both have the same SPEED and TURNS. Yet the Delphi has a stronger hull (hull 5 to the Oracles 4), greater damage (delphi: 25/6; Oracle: 16/5), more crew (37/8 to the Oracle's 22/6) and better Stealth (Delphi's 5+ vs Oracle's 3+)

Why would I take an Oracle.

I think the the Oracle should be a Skirmish level ship.

 

[Pauly_D]

yes i definately agree or both ships will be effectively doing the same job but one is just better at it, they should at different pl so that EA raid ships can get more stealth but cheaper, that will help against Minbari

 

[Scimitar]

Sorry, but the Oracle's also got a decent beam weapon and missle racks. At skirmish she'd be a 'no brainer' and outclass all the other skimish choices. The Delphi is better at hiding, but I think the oracle is better at support fire.

 

[Pauly_D]

Sorry, but the Oracle's also got a decent beam weapon and missle racks. At skirmish she'd be a 'no brainer' and outclass all the other skimish choices. The Delphi is better at hiding, but I think the oracle is better at support fire.

i didnt mean keep the rest as it is and just put it down to skirmish.
it would be better to bring the rest of the stats down to make it a skirmish ship

 

[Scimitar]

That could work. The One knows the EA needs a cheap-ish scout.

 

[Pauly_D]

That could work. The One knows the EA needs a cheap-ish scout.

exactly, as EA do worst against Minbari anyways so they definately need a low level scout, Centauri have Covrans (patrol) or Vorchar (Skirmish), Narns have Sho'Kar (Skirmish) and League have those 2 Vree Ships (1 is Patrol and 1 is Skirmish) and i think one of the Abbai patrol ships might be a scout as well (Shyarie possibly) whereas EA have Oracle (Raid) and Delphi (Raid)

 

[Chernobyl]

I'd go for this.
With them both being Raid ships, its a no-brainer to take the one with better stealth and no-range scout ability. If I'm bringing a scout, its going to be giving scout bonuses, not fire support.

Chern

 

[B5freak]

I agree with Chern. If the Oracle or Delphi got some kind of bonus to their Scout roll for being bigger ships, with bigger and better EW systems, I could see making them Raids. Unfortunately, I still only have a 4+ whether it's a Patrol or a War choice, which means the only way to improve my chances of pulling off the anti-stealth is to put more Scouts on the table, which is hard to justify when said scout is a Raid choice.

 

[Target]

A 1 ad missle rack hardly counts and it's not like it's DD beam weapon and P and S weapons aren't anything to rave about + the hits suck even compared to the delphi.
Downgrade the beam to AP if that makes it skirmish.
It just doesn't belong in raid.

 

[Howarth]

COOKIES !!!!

Quack

 

[Matt]

COOKIES !!!!

no you dont get any

*runs off with the cookies*

i think the ship shud be put down a pl

 

[Lagavulin]

Compare the Oracle to the Narn Sho'Kar scout - a skirmish ship. There is not actually much to choose between them. Sho'Kar might be have shorter range weapons but it has plenty of dice. Other characteristics are similar to an Oracle. As raid ship an oracle is pointless - even if playing in a time period before the Delphi is available. Instead of buying one againt the Minbari buy 2 more skirmish ships, the extra lock on rolls and firepower probably compensate for a +1 lock on bonus every other turn which is all an oracle will get you unless it has an exceptional crew. Against anyone other than Minbari the Oracle is utterly pointless.

 

[Nomad]

I don't mind the limited firepower of the Oracle or the Delphi - they are support ships, not line elements.

My problem with the Oracle is that it is too fragile for a Raid PL ship: this was the case in the original version of the rules, IMHO, and has just become (relatively) worse in SFoS.

(Same applies to the Hyperion and Omega, also - see other threads ad nauseam)

I don't care if the ship is either beefed up, or dropped to Skirmish PL, but one or the other, please, Mongoose (a suitable article for an S&P edition, or RS4?).

 

[B5freak]

Nomad Wrote:

I don't care if the ship is either beefed up, or dropped to Skirmish PL, but one or the other, please, Mongoose (a suitable article for an S&P edition, or RS4?).

Sadly, I'm getting the distinct impression that Mongoose has stopped listening. I picked up ACTA in February, ordering it directly from the U.K. since it wasn't available here, and instantly became a proponent. I ran demos on my own time, let people borrow my fleets, made fleet rosters, and eventually convinced my local store to start carrying the line.

A big part of my enthusiasm was based on Mongoose's ability to make the fleets balanced while retaining their distinctive flavors and their ongoing attempts to improve the game by taking inputs from the online forums. The Suppliments were a great example of this and I had the greatest of hopes for SFoS.

Since SFoS came out however, all I or pretty much any of the other "dissenters" have recieved in response to our calls for a review of some of the fleets is, "the fleets are balanced", "play some more and you'll figure it out", "quit whining", and worst of all, silence. Yes, Matt put out the S&P article on how to fight Minbari, an effort I for one was grateful for, but the fundamental problem has remained.

I'm still running demos, I've got a tournament lined up for next month, and I'm running a mega-battle at Denver's big con in February, but it's getting harder and harder to convince people to play. My local store's message board has a sizable thread on house rule proposals, my Minbari players don't want to participate in the tournament because THEY think their fleet is too powerful, my Centauri player is trying to figure out what his fleet's "weakness" is (because it doesn't appear to have one), and my Vorlon player is making daily sacrifices to the gods of good dice rolling in the hopes that it will make his fleet playable.

 

[Nomad]

I expect Mongoose's current aloofness is simply a result of having put a great deal of work into a product (SFoS) over the best part of a year and not wishing to start making more changes as soon as it's published.

However, the response to SFoS has not been one of unalloyed joy; while a lot of the new features were welcome, I certainly considered ignoring the new fleet lists and continuing to play the original ones, hard fighters, fragile Minbari, nasty emines and all.

A significant part of the games' fanbase appears believe there are issues that need addressing and I would hope that the company will return to these in the new year - there have already been mentions of a 'Second Edition'.

 

[Matt]

hmm thats sounded a bit sad

i dont think the diffrent fleets are very bad its just they all need a bit off tweaking

i still hope this will come in supplements in not suche a long time

 

[Chernobyl]

I agree for the most part with nomad...I don't think they want to send in for a re-write the book they just published. how would you feel with all the many gripes, complaints, offered rules adjustments etc. that are the focus of many threads on their own messageboards.
Did sky full of stars come out too early? was there enough playtesting? were the re-profiled ships needed that badly?

Chern

 

[Balance]

I agree for the most part with nomad...I don't think they want to send in for a re-write the book they just published. how would you feel with all the many gripes, complaints, offered rules adjustments etc. that are the focus of many threads on their own messageboards.
Did sky full of stars come out too early? was there enough playtesting? were the re-profiled ships needed that badly?

Did it perhaps change too much too quickly? I've noticed many games suffer from overcorrection problems. If something is underpowered, it gets upgraded until it is overpowered. If it's overpowered, it gets weakened until it's underpowered.

Games Workshop is very guilty of this, as are most MMORPGs I've seen.

Mongoose seems to want to do things differently, but this kind of thing can easily happen... Staying quiet on balance issues (besides true errata and similar) after a big release may be a good policy.

 

[emperorpenguin]

the one advantage I see of the Oracle (and it's not much) is that unlike corvans and vree scouts, they don't go pop! when minbari jump points open on top of them

 

[B5freak]

I can completely agree with and understand the "lets not do anything hasty" attitude. What I can't understand is complete non-engagement on the issue. I want to keep playing, my local group wants to keep playing, and we're willing to wait while fixes are examined, but we need some indication that Mongoose is doing something.

Even if all Matt did was put up a post saying, "We understand problems have arisen with the new fleet lists and are looking into the situation", that would go a long way towards defusing this situation and restoring faith in Mongoose's commitment to listening to its fan base.