Ok, I'm caving....

[Charlie]

I've always wated to play SST minis, but I never got around to it. I play so many other games you see and its hard to keep up with what I got as it is, and the fact no one plays it where I'm at is a big issue...

But now a friend of mine and another fellow or two are going to start getting into it in my area, and I had a little bit of holiday cash and well I figured this might be a good time to start.


So first of all, I want to start small. Is the normal game size 1500 points? If thats the case, I'm thinking 500-750 would be a good place to start.

Next...what to play? Tell you the truth I wouldn't mind playing anything except the skinnies (just too silly looking for me). So whats easier to start? MI or bugs? I assume since bugs typically outnumber the MI, MI would focus on smaller numbers and thus essentially be a cheaper army to start...right? (Or would the bug army box be better?)

But the other problem is I'm not a fan of the CAV dudes. I guess I'm a purist and I want to work with the light infatry. I loved the movie and want to stick to that vision. So my thought was some light infatry with some cougars or grizzlies backing them up. Also, the pathfinders look cool, especially the cyber-doggies...oh and I like nukes . I'd probably use minimal vehicles/walkers if any...

Or would I be better off waiting for the Fourth? Any rumors on their appearance date? I've seen some of the pics, and they look kinda cool....might be kinda fun to play somethin' different...



Also, maybe you folks could write up a list or two to give me an idea of what might be fun to play using the light infantry and the other stuff I mentioned above?

Thanks for any help guys...

 

[Gauntlet-]

Okay first things first-
This is All assuming you want a cheap and fun army

Sometime in 2007 (though who knows maybe even early 2008) they will be re-releasing SST with Pre-Painted plastic miniatures.

Now- You should read up around here and decide just how much you want to wait, VS, how much you want to spend.

Now that being said, SST is great and there are plenty of good models, and some that are tougher... Sounds like your a movie/book guy, so you want LAMI (light armored MI) and Exo Suits (grizzlys and cougars)

Since you love the movie, I suggest ignoring the Exo Suits for the time being, that way you dont really need to buy the MI book, just the LAMI book... See what armies your friends are playing, if one of them chooses any MI he will need that book, and you can share, the only info you need from it will be assets...

Now with LAMI you will want 40 guys... IE 2 boxes of troopers... and really 2 boxes of Reliants. That will give you enough 1000 easy, more if you add in things like airtransports and nukes.

How much is that in money?

LAMI Book: 15
2 Boxes LAMI: 60
2 Boxes Reliants: 50

125$

Thats Mongoose pricing from the website, not including shipping.... however I suggest online shopping, Unless you are supporting your Local store... your choice....

the two best online shops I know of are
Thewarstore.com (best for reliabillity, and customer service)
superherogameland.com (excellent pricing/free shipping on orders of 100)

at superhero that will typically cost you 20% less, but it seems their LAMI stock has run out... I couldnt find any ... found everything else though so check yourself... but they have reliant boxes for 16 dollars in stead of 25! Huge difference.


Regardless of how you buy, you should be spending about 125$ for a cool starting force... things thatll help you boost it later:

1. transports (these are templates so free if you get the original starting box set... or make your own since that set has no LAMI--- you could also get proxy models because air units wont be out until 07/08)

3. Missiles -also a template issue so you can have these immediately. There are models but they are really not neccessary for their use as they appear on the board and then typically disapear immediately.

4. another 20 troopers... or a whole platoon of Exo Suits.


Oh and the Forth wont be out until the re-release in 07/08.

NOW- you could play bugs, which if your on a small budget can be tough, but then again superhero has all the bug units, and the mega swarm pack is very cost effective you could pontentially have 20% off everything with a game that is already cheap compared to other games.

huh do I sound like a living advertisement?
Sorry but they rocked my socks off

 

[tneva82]

So first of all, I want to start small. Is the normal game size 1500 points? If thats the case, I'm thinking 500-750 would be a good place to start.

Seems more of 2k games but you can start as small as you want and build up slowly from there.

So whats easier to start? MI or bugs? I assume since bugs typically outnumber the MI, MI would focus on smaller numbers and thus essentially be a cheaper army to start...right? (Or would the bug army box be better?)

MI. Bugs are expensive. Very, VERY expensive. Okay so the basic warriors are not THAT expensive but apart from that everything else costs darned much for their points(bad side of being cheap enough to overnumber MI I suppose :lol. Especially some variants cost arm and teeth to get in big numbers(thinking of blasters and hoppers...).

So my thought was some light infatry with some cougars or grizzlies backing them up. Also, the pathfinders look cool, especially the cyber-doggies...oh and I like nukes . I'd probably use minimal vehicles/walkers if any...

LAMI is going to be long painting process But anyway other person gave you already decent starting list. Maybe buy few specialist weapons as separate in addition. They give you 2 squads worth of trooppers per box but only 1 special weapon per squad when you can get 2...I would get another sniper rifle and javelin launcher if I were you(sniper is all-around usefull and cheap, javelin good for busting incoming tankers or against fellow MI's exosuits, marauders and CHAS's).

Or would I be better off waiting for the Fourth? Any rumors on their appearance date?

April when SST:Evo is launched.

 

[Galatea]

I don't think that Bugs are THAT expensive.
40 LAMI and a Platoon Exos aren't that cheap after all (espacially not if you buy the special/heavy weapon LAMI troopers).

There is some expensive stuff (Blasters, Firefries, Tanker), but if you buy an arachnid army deal and a Megaswarm of Warriors you are almost done with your 2000p army.
A bit more expensive than an MI Platoon, but not that much.

And I wouldn't recommend Reliants. Ever seen what a Controll-bug ripped trooper behind a bugbroom laser does to an MI Squad?
You don't wanna know.

 

[Iain McGhee]

The LAMI rules are in the Klendathu Invasion rulebook. Unless you want a wide range of Arachnids this is the only rulebook you need (other than the basic rulebook of course). Remember that SST:Evolution is on the cards for this Summer and the basic rulebook will be replaced. You'll also need a couple of buckets of dice

If you don't intend to buy the boxed set then the Warrior Bug Swarm set is the cheapest way to build an army of them. A box of Hoppers is also worth having. Depending on your modelling skills, I'd wait before getting any Tankers until the prepainted/prebuilt one arrives. Won't need it for small games anyway.

 

[Charlie]

Decisions decisions....

I'm not really a fan of the reliants. But I do like those missiles...
Are the grizzlies allowed in a LAMI army? Yeah, I'm a movie guy, but those grizzlies just look too cool.
And I'm definitely a fan of mini-nukes. I figure I could buy a box of special weapons to get more.

So far I'm thinking:
40 LAMI
As many nukes as I can get
Maybe some air support and/or missiles
Grizzlies
Maybe some pathfinders with the cool little puppies

How workable would that be? Also how much? I'm not TOO worried about cash...




On the other hand, I really like the looks of most of the bugs. I keep looking at that army set...looks like a nice and simple buy.

I'm a veteran of many mini games, so building and painting isn't a problem either. I'm not really a fan of pre-paints. Although I have to say that I'd probably enjoy painting bugs more than MI.



Also are the Fourth going tobe JUST those nifty looking walkers and whatnot? Or will they have some infantry as well?



This is a tough choice...

 

[Iain McGhee]

The MI can use 1 Platoon per 1000pts. You'd need to have the Exosuits (or any other different type) in a seperate Platoon, but you can use them in the same army. The only exception is when you add Marauder suits to Power Suit squads. An Exosuit Platoon can have as little as 7 Troopers (I think) but you will need the MI Army Book for the rules.

 

[Iain McGhee]

Just been looking at the LAMI lists (thinking of getting a Platoon of the prepaints myself).

2 boxes could easily get you 2000pts worth of troops. Might be a little out on some of the costs (don't have the updates to hand)

1xLT (full traits and plasma munition) for 145pts
2xNCOs (full traits and plasma munitions) for 260pts
4xLAMI squads (Sgt,Cpl,medic,comms,sniper,longbow ML
+ 2 troopers,Sgt has full traits) for 1000pts

At PL2 give 2 Longbows Pee-Wee Nukes for 600 pts

And that's without any air assets and at PL3 you can give all your Longbows Nukes (and add a SSM with Ajax warhead !)

This leaves you with 5 spares which you can build as weapons options/FedNet reporters etc. or add them as regular troopers (above squads are minimum size). You only get one sniper, one Longbow and one Comms with each box but you can order singles as spares (or convert them).

Nuke'em till they glow then shoot them in the dark

 

[tneva82]

I don't think that Bugs are THAT expensive.
40 LAMI and a Platoon Exos aren't that cheap after all (espacially not if you buy the special/heavy weapon LAMI troopers).

25€ for 60 pts.(blasters)

30€ for 300/400 pts.(exosuits)

Sure you can get some basic all h2h swarm reasonably cheap but then try adding some variety...With MI you can add variety without changing models. With bugs you are stuck with same playing style forever if you go for cheap route. I don't know if that's so appealing.

I have now paid over 2x for my bugs that I paid for my cap platoon and with bugs I have 1 workable composition and 1 semi-workable composition. Cap trooppers I can vary workable compositions lot more.

And exosuits is btw very, very cheap army. Sure box is expensive but boy you get POINTS! Arachnid mega swarm needs to use endless tide(and for that you need 2k first...) to cougars in points and they cost more...And army of all-warriors isn't that interesting.

Arachnids are definetly pricier army from there. LAMI is also not so cheap but they are similar to arachnids in that you need lots of them. Rest of MI are very cheap though.

 

[Gauntlet-]

the price of bugs really depends on what type of army you field... obviously an army of lots of speciality units will cost more... but who cares youve expressed interest in the LAMI and exo suits more than anything else...


so yeah, 40LAMI is a must for ANY LAMI, any less and its not worth the points IMO,

and army set up is platoons of a type- and 1000 points each, so 2000 point game = 2 platoons

Platoon 1: LAMI
Platoon 2: Exo Suits OR Pathfinders.... You cant have all three unless you up to 3000 points, since you want to start small, I would skip the Pathfinders, the dogs are nifty, but youll have an easier time learning and playing as a begginner with Exo Suits.

So decide whats your primary force, the LAMI IE Movie, or the Exo Suits IE Book

Then buy the models you need, and then add on the secondary platoon over time. if you dont have the cash to just plop down and get all of it...

of the 2 suits, youll want Cougars for officers and Grizzlys for regulars... because Cougars can avoid very lethal dammage, but are lighter armed, but officers Need To Live... so they work quite nicely, and Grizzlys can die easier, but have double the firepower... so your regulars use them nicely.

So minimal Exo Platoon

LT/Commander Cougar

2 Squads of 2(3 is nicer so lets say three) 1 Cougar Sarge each and 2 Grizzly troopers...

thats 3 Cougars and 4 Grizzlys youll need. Not bad by money, and since the commander will be roughly 200 points, and each trooper is like 150 on average... so thats 1100 points.... Throw in 500 for LAMI squads and you got 1600.... thats a nuker 300 and 100 for additional extra stuff *My numbers assume that you take special weapons and thingys so thats really extra points....

2000, points, for about 100$

 

[Soulmage]

If you would enjoy painting the bugs, I'd recommend that you go that route instead of the MI.

As you are looking around for opponents, you will find that the majority are MI, so this will set you apart from them and make your army a little more unique right from the start.

 

[Charlie]

Ah...ok, now I'm starting to see. I didn't realise there was that platoon rule...I haven't even bought the rules yet.

Iain, that list you made looks just about perfect.

Gauntlet, your list puts things a little more into perspective for me. At the very least, I think I'd start with 1 platoon (1000 points) and maybe I'll work into the exo suits later...



Soulmage, thanks for the advice. At the moment there are just 3 of us looking to get into the game. The other two guys are gonna buy a box set each and switch pieces so they both start with a pretty big force. So we'll have one bug and one MI. That was one reason why I was thinking of waiting for the Fourth. Not gonna bother with the skinnies...they just look too silly for me.

So what could we come up with for bugs for 1000 points? That army box set keeps looking very appealing to me, but what is a 'tunneling asset'? is that just like upgradeing a unit to "tunnel" onto the board during the game instead of being deployed?

Are the warriors a "Must have" unit? In other words, could a bug army consist of some of the stranger units?
I really like the idea of the control bugs. All the tankers are cool. Mites and spiders look cool. Heck, everything looks cool. Are there any unconventional armies out there?

 

[tneva82]

So what could we come up with for bugs for 1000 points? That army box set keeps looking very appealing to me, but what is a 'tunneling asset'? is that just like upgradeing a unit to "tunnel" onto the board during the game instead of being deployed?

Tunneling assets represents basicly tunnel network under the ground. Tunnel entrances from which bugs can enter tunnel network or come from without digging their own holes and tunneling markers which represent the units. They aren't tied to any specific units.

Are the warriors a "Must have" unit? In other words, could a bug army consist of some of the stranger units?

Well. They are very, very good units for arachnids and I can't imagine playing them without bunch of warriors. However there have been stranger armies like overseers and ripplers only army.

Rulewise nothing FORCES you to take warriors. They are just darn good and cheap models

And moneywise you are going to run into very expensive army without warriors but if money isn't problem...

 

[Charlie]

Tunneling assets represents basicly tunnel network under the ground. Tunnel entrances from which bugs can enter tunnel network or come from without digging their own holes and tunneling markers which represent the units. They aren't tied to any specific units.

I'm not compeltely understanding how that works. Are there actual tunnel markers you place on the board where they come out or something?
How do markers represent the units themselves?



So it looks like I have only two real choices. Get a pile of LAMI or the bug army box set....
This is a tough decision

 

[chris_valera]

I've always wated to play SST minis, but I never got around to it. I play so many other games you see and its hard to keep up with what I got as it is, and the fact no one plays it where I'm at is a big issue...

But now a friend of mine and another fellow or two are going to start getting into it in my area, and I had a little bit of holiday cash and well I figured this might be a good time to start.

You're right, the prepainted version means the old stuff is being blown out at rock-bottom prices. Check Play with Bob's thread.

--Chris
www.chrisvalera.com

 

[tneva82]

I'm not compeltely understanding how that works. Are there actual tunnel markers you place on the board where they come out or something?
How do markers represent the units themselves?

Basicly tunnel marker represent one unit that is tunneling below. You move marker according to the speed it can move(depends on species and where you are moving. Generally you can move faster if you move toward tunnel entrances as that represent using old tunnels instead of digging your own).

Then once you reach tunnel entrance unit emerges and you place your models on board(within certain limitations). If you have tunnel entrances bought which you didn't deploy you can also tunnel up anytime you wish if unit in question is capable of tunneling own holes.

 

[Gauntlet-]

well I am a bug player, and I have to say warriors are not a must... but its a hard day without them... for most of us anyways...

some units are a must for larger games, and some are just extremely useful.

The only one Id claim for a moment is a must for any army above 1000, is a Brain Bug, and it is a Must for 2000+ IMO Im not saying you can win without it, but it allows you so much versatillity, that I just wouldnt Want to play without it.

The basic tanker, the thorny tanker, the plasma, warriors, hoppers, and fire fries are all great units, and if you dont want to base your army on warriors the next in line Id suggest is the Fire Fries, at 5 a box they are not as cost prohibitive as say hoppers... youll have decent numbers and a very useful unit... a little fragile, but good mobility and fire power.

Hoppers will also be useful in any sized game, in smaller games they can be essential, I only have 6 in a 3000 point army, but I take 90% of every game regardless of size. You dont need alot, but you need some.

The King Tanker, cliff mites, mantis bugs, blister/blaster bugs, all have their uses, but are not always the best all around unit. I wouldn't base an army on cliffmites, not because it wouldnt work, but because itd be monsterously expensive...

as for spider bugs... well most players I know consider them to be 100% useless when compared to warriors, or the Fire Fry. SO it really depends on your values as a player... how much you care about being competitive as opposed to just looking cool.

Ripplers and Overseers are both pretty nice, and an all air army can work!


Your only really prohibitive issue, is that you can only have 3 brains, 3 plasmas, and 3 tankers in most situations. So dont go buying ten of each lol... 2 of each would be a big investment, but will be nice for 2-3K games.


hope some of this helps.

 

[JoseDominguez]

Main thing I'd say is start with warriors, lots of warriors. Learn the basics of the game that way and master winning games with tunneling. Then start expanding the force. If you invest in firefries or hoppers or any of the other specialist units without buying warriors, then your opponent will only be surprised once. Next game he'll be ready for you as you've nothing to keep him on his toes. And remember, it's far easier for an MI player to adapt to bug tactics than vice versa...... all he needs to do is pay some extra points and he has an air army, switch a few weapons to go close up assault etc.... if you decide to go shooty, you need to buy new models. Most opponents will have a fair idea of what models you have and will plan accordingly... it's a difficulty with bugs. Every few games I drop all of the specialist bugs and field a brain/worker force. It's amazing how much it throws the MI when they realise none of your units are 'expensive' and more worth shooting than another (I keep my brain buried). They get really confused.

Also, with lots of warriors you can: carrion upgrade or workers downgrade. Making them the only models in the bug army that are truly flexible without the need for a different model (while most MI can at the very least tag on frag grenades/trenchsweepers).

We've got every option available to us in our group (200 warriors, 40 hoppers, 3 brains, 3 plasma, 4 tankers for some reason?, thorny, king etc... etc...) And we've found that the best combinations are always warrior heavy, also means you are winning on the games table, not with an army list.
And air assets may be impossible to take out with warriors, but the amount of damage a fighter etc... can cause against workers/warriors doesn't come near what it cost to field. (Then at the end of the game it can't claim VPs anyway).

 

[Charlie]

I see....
Well, after weighting pros and cons, it looks like I'll be going bugs.

And that nifty army set looks like it will give just enough to start with and at the same time giving me a bit of flavor...


Thanks for all the help fellas!

 

[catbarf]

Charlie, you want my bugs? I've got a bunch I'd sell to you, unpainted most assembled. PM me if interested.