Next Generation Warships

[dant164]

Ive been going over the crusade era Fleet list for my beloved EA when something odd struck me, we have next generation ships for most options, namely the Marathon, the Apollo, the Chronos and the Delphi, and it is obvious that the EA crusade list is top heavy in that everytime a ship replaces a previous ship it gets bumped up a priority level, imagine my surprise when i realised....

....We have no next Gen war level ships?

By the same token, the only skirmish level ships we have has been available since the early years?

Before i let anyone comment let me just clarify what i mean by next generation ships. I look at the newer black ships as next gen, basically the difference between a hyperion and a Chronos.

 

[Locutus9956]

yep, I agree completely, personally I think the Warlock should have been left at War level, as much as I like it to be super powerful ship I shouldnt be the equal of a Vorlon heavy cruiser or a VCD. Frankly if ANY of the old warships was to go up to Armageddon and become truly nasty I think it should have been the sharlin (of the 'younger' races anyway, I totally agree with the Vorlons and Shadows getting bumped up )

My point is, though, why was it necessary to take a decent Warship and stick in a PL where there was ALREADY going to be a new Armageddon level ship leaving the EA without a decent war choice at all. No other race has more than 1 armageddon level ship as far as I know...

As for the low PLs, well it would be nice to have an advanced corvette or something to use at patrol or at least skirmish but who knows what the future will bring...

 

[Tank]

They had all that about the chronos ages ago

 

[Burger]

Don't know why the Shadow Omega was bumped up, either. That should've stayed at War too...

 

[dant164]

As it stands if you dont like Hyperions or Omegas then you have serious problems over Battle priority, The problem is so bad that ina viable 5 point war fleet you may not actually have any WAR ships.

And WHY did the Shadow Omega go up a level, its worse than the warlock and that shouldnt even have gone up. Dont even get me started on the Nemesis...

:roll: :roll:

 

[Locutus9956]

wtf?! I hadnt actually really looked at the other EA lists but yes I agree there too

Actually.... I can sort of see what they were trying to do, namely give EA an Armageddon ship in the third age list and then they obviously couldnt make the Nemesis WORSE than the Warlock but heres an alternate idea then:

Keep the Warlock at war level and make the Shadow omega that choice, it could well be more potent as its pretty much loaded with flat out shadow tech (sure it doesnt work as well as the shadow BASED tech of the Warlock but its still rather nasty). I seem to recall this was more or less how it was in B5Wars (and presumably fleet action though I never actually played that game) and it seemed reasonable the. <<shrug>>

I just want my late era war ship back (for that matter if they were going to up the Warlock why not have made the Marathon War level... sigh) (and lets be honest can any of you other EA players out there EVER envision taking a Comand Omega over 2 Regular ones?)

 

[dant164]

(for that matter if they were going to up the Warlock why not have made the Marathon War level... sigh)

NO dont give them ideas, they might actually try it, i like my Marathon where it is!!!!

Another odd thing, the Marathon at battle level has AJP but the ships at war level dont? you would think they would retrofit a super carrier with an AJP for straegic values. Also it would then give a point to using the omega CC over the basic if the variant had AJP. No a big point, but still, a point.

 

[Tank]

I've used a Command Omega in a Campaign fleet but that was just coz it made the fleet nicely themed but otherwise in a purely competitive sense no, I would take 2 standard Omegas.

 

[Voronesh]

Basically most jops in the Crusade era fleet have been assigned.

1 full priority lvl higher than in earlier lists but that is perfectly ok.

Escort vessels like Olympus and Artemis have gotten the Chronos.
Hyperion as Huntership, heavy escort has gotten the Marathon.
Omega as line ship has gotten the Warlock/Nemesis???

The whole thing would work, if at least the Warlock would be at war, yet at armageddon it seems funny.....and not right.

 

[dant164]

The only problem with that is that while the chronos rendered its predecessors obsolete, the hyperion is still in the Crusade list. Why didnt they just make a crusade version of the hermes for skirmish level instead of giving crusade era fleets an obsolete ship?


Whats needed is for the warlock to go back down to war level and a new skirmish level ship to replace the hyperion, basically a beefed up hermes, but not as good as the chronos.

 

[captainsmirk]

Another odd thing, the Marathon at battle level has AJP but the ships at war level dont? you would think they would retrofit a super carrier with an AJP for straegic values. Also it would then give a point to using the omega CC over the basic if the variant had AJP. No a big point, but still, a point.

Well I'm not sure they would see a need to fit AJP to a super carrier, its advantages seem to be mostly when jumping directly into contact with the enemy, exactly the last thing you want to be doing with your super carrier...

Plus jump engines seem to be quite large expensive pieces of kit, which would require major reworking of the ship to remove and replace, and then you're left with a perfectly servicible jump engine containing Q40 (the most expensive mineral and one of the rarest in the galaxy) with nothing to use it for...

Nick

 

[locarno24]

The only problem with that is that while the chronos rendered its predecessors obsolete, the hyperion is still in the Crusade list. Why didnt they just make a crusade version of the hermes for skirmish level instead of giving crusade era fleets an obsolete ship?

Because the hermes isnt a warship, it's an armed transport....which doesn't need up gunning because the EA now has fighting ships that can offer meaningful protection to a convoy even with relatively few escort craft.

Crusade era EA doesn't need a 'skirmish ship', it needs a ship for each major battlefield role.

Scout
Oracle Scout Cruiser - Delphi Advanced Scout.

Escort
Artemis Heavy Frigate - Olympus Corvette - Chronos Attack Frigate

Heavy Combatant
Nova Dreanought - Omega Destroyer - Warlock Advanced Destroyer

Light Combatant
Hyperion Pulse Cruiser - Hyperion Cruiser - Marathon Advanced Cruiser

Fighter
Starfury Tiger - Starfury Nova/Aurora - Thunderbolt

 

[Voronesh]

Yer thats exactly the progression line that seems to exist.

Only that the Warlock jumps 2 lvls instead of one lvl like the rest of the fleet :S

 

[dant164]

Surely EarthForce would keep some sort of ship capable of dealing with small engagements without comitting amarathon to a fight, fluff wise the marathons are meant to be quite rare...

 

[Greg Smith]

They would probably send a Chronos. A Chronos is a dangerous as a Nova was several decades previously. It's just a smaller, more advanced ship.

 

[Target]

I'd still take a nova but if i had the option i'd take 2 olympi over a chronos. the Chronos can't even get there with help no jump engine. Limits it a bit.

 

[captainsmirk]

Well thats because the EA can't build small enough Jump Engines...

Nick

 

[dant164]

They managed to fit a jump engine in the oracle, and the smaller Hyperion variants, and that was during the early years, surely they could minitaurize jump engines a little.

 

[Goldritter]

And I think, that the Hermes is not bigger as the chronos.

 

[captainsmirk]

They managed to fit a jump engine in the oracle, and the smaller Hyperion variants, and that was during the early years, surely they could minitaurize jump engines a little.

But all the Hyperions are the basically the same size? And the Oracle isn't much smaller than the Hyperion.

The fact that the White Star had a jump drive was a surprise to Sheridan, jump drives are not something the EA has on small ships according to the show. Anyway maybe its not the size of the Jump drive, but size of the ships reactor, which determines what can have a jump engine.

Nick