My Bridge tonnage/cost rules

[sideranautae]

Control Room

In ancient times on vessels that plied the water, this space was called the Bridge. It is where control of the spaceship is exercised. On armed ships weapon control is also included. Civilian ship's Control Rooms are usually located near the engineering section while on military ships it tends to be at the center of the ship for maximum protection.

There are other items that accounted for under Control Room tonnage, as listed below.

Control Room tonnage (minimum)

Ship size
100 tons – 1,000 tons = 7 tons

Consists of:
2 tons = Default sensors
1 ton = One air lock
1 ton = Ship's Locker
1 ton = Default computers and electronics
1 ton = Two Work Stations (usually for the Pilot & Astrogator)

Ship size
Over 1,000 tons = 9 tons

2 tons = Default sensors
1 ton = One air lock
1 ton = Ship's Locker
3 tons = Default computers and electronics
1 ton = Two Work Stations (usually for a Pilot & Astrogator)

Each additional Control Room position (Gunner, Sensor operator, Co-Pilot, etc.) requires 1/2 ton of additional Work Station space. Each Command position (Officers who supervise) in the Control Room also requires another 1/2 ton of added Control Room space.

The cost of the Control Room is MCr. 0.05 per ton.

 

[phavoc]

Currently bridge tonnage is a bit kludgy. But keep in mind that any ship is going to have a lot of wiring, conduits, control runs, distributed processors, etc that are all tied into the ships controls and don't get put down as a line item on the design.

A modern aircraft has a teeny cockpit, but you don't see all the additional things hidden under the floors or located elsewhere in the aircraft. Same goes for ships as well.

Also, the amount of space you have allocated can work, but it will be highly cramped. I've sat with two other guys in a space about the size of your bridge. Yes, we made it work for hours on end, but no, it wasn't at all conducive to long-term occupancy. Bridges will be occupied for long periods of time, so you might want to bump up your tonnage to 1DT per control space, which would give sufficient room to get up, to have your console, etc.

Airlocks, too, would probably tend to be bigger. Or at least one of them should be. Airlocks are where a lot of smaller cargo is going to come aboard - especially on ships without dedicated cargo bays. One airlock should always be sized for regular personnel access. Smaller airlocks work if they are secondary, or meant to primarily be maintenance.

 

[GypsyComet]

The two existing editions that break down control spaces like this do use a half ton for non-Bridge workstations that are going to be, presumably, part of some other space, but make Bridge workstations a full ton so you can build a room out of them.

 

[sideranautae]

Currently bridge tonnage is a bit kludgy. But keep in mind that any ship is going to have a lot of wiring, conduits, control runs, distributed processors, etc that are all tied into the ships controls and don't get put down as a line item on the design.

All accounted for in default sensor & electronics listing. Sensors are a fraction of listed size. The rest is for "wiring" and such.

Also, the amount of space you have allocated can work, but it will be highly cramped.

Yes, this is the minimum size. Not even room for a "Captain" to pace the bridge.

Airlocks, too, would probably tend to be bigger. Or at least one of them should be. Airlocks are where a lot of smaller cargo is going to come aboard - especially on ships without dedicated cargo bays.

One ton is the standard Trav airlock. I don't use airlocks for merchants as cargo is containerized and those are vacuum rated. Airlocks don't really make sense for cargo holds.

Another factor that most people don't realize, electronic items are packaged in a much, MUCH larger format because we don't have superconductors. IMTU, superconductors are in use.

 

[Condottiere]

Cargo hatches haven't been defined.

Larger airlocks are quite possible, among the larger examples would be normal smallcraft launch facilities, unless you plan to open up the hangar facilities to vacuum.

 

[sideranautae]

Cargo hatches haven't been defined.

I defined them for my game.

Larger airlocks are quite possible, among the larger examples would be normal smallcraft launch facilities, unless you plan to open up the hangar facilities to vacuum.

Anything is possible. I listed the minimum requirements for airlocks used by people. And, in my game hangers ARE open to vacuum during launch. MUCH safer that way. Large cargo areas have separate sections. But not airlocks for cargo.

 

[rust]

Hmmm ... I would base the minimum size of an airlock on a plau-
sible emergency scenario, for example two persons in vacc suits
who carry a third (e.g. wounded, etc.) person in a vacc suit, and
I doubt that 1 dton is really sufficient for this.

 

[sideranautae]

Hmmm ... I would base the minimum size of an airlock on a plau-
sible emergency scenario, for example two persons in vacc suits
who carry a third (e.g. wounded, etc.) person in a vacc suit, and
I doubt that 1 dton is really sufficient for this.

2 people + carrying a 3rd EASILY fits in a 1.5m x 3m space. 4 people can fit into that space if standing without any problem. 3 people passing through is what is required by the rules. 1 ton handles that.

 

[phavoc]

Airlocks, too, would probably tend to be bigger. Or at least one of them should be. Airlocks are where a lot of smaller cargo is going to come aboard - especially on ships without dedicated cargo bays.

One ton is the standard Trav airlock. I don't use airlocks for merchants as cargo is containerized and those are vacuum rated. Airlocks don't really make sense for cargo holds.

Military ships would be likely to have the more cramped airlocks, but civilian ships, especially passenger transports, would be the ones to have more generously sized airlocks. A 5ft wide airlock can accommodate 2 people, but it's rather narrow, especially if you aren't used to that sort of cramped quarters. Most people aren't big fans of cramped elevators. I could easily see a civilian liner airlock being 2 DT. But on your scout ship example 1DT is ok. Service airlocks would probably be on the scale of .5DT.

Though I've often wondered where people are supposed to store and put on their space suits. I'd think you put them on before you entered the airlock, so that means there needs to be a dressing area to change, and a place to store your suit (as well as recharge it with power and air).

Another factor that most people don't realize, electronic items are packaged in a much, MUCH larger format because we don't have superconductors. IMTU, superconductors are in use.

Oh, sure. Molycircs, micro-pumps, minaturization will make things much smaller. But so far we keep adding stuff to fill up those spaces we've freed up. But maybe in the future we'll get away from that.

 

[Condottiere]

Plumbing probably takes more space. Fibre optics probably have enough bandwidth for ship monitoring, and how much juice will normal appliances require anyway?

 

[sideranautae]

Military ships would be likely to have the more cramped airlocks, but civilian ships, especially passenger transports, would be the ones to have more generously sized airlocks. A 5ft wide airlock can accommodate 2 people, but it's rather narrow, especially if you aren't used to that sort of cramped quarters. Most people aren't big fans of cramped elevators. I could easily see a civilian liner airlock being 2 DT. But on your scout ship example 1DT is ok. Service airlocks would probably be on the scale of .5DT.

Yes, something like a cruise ship would have to have a different paradigm. The rule I wrote is for your Tramp or mil. Common sense has to prevail. Passengers of a liner aren't going to stand for, and the liner can't afford to have small 'locks that can only handle small amounts of people.

Though I've often wondered where people are supposed to store and put on their space suits. I'd think you put them on before you entered the airlock, so that means there needs to be a dressing area to change, and a place to store your suit (as well as recharge it with power and air).

Good point. On small ships (a la a Type S) I can see the crew having the suits in their berthing and putting them on there. Not so much for larger vessels.

 

[Condottiere]

It also depends on how bulky your space suit is.

The Military and the well off are likely to have skinsuits, though I can't believe the lycra variant would be more expensive than an Apollo astronaut's one.

 

[phavoc]

Though I've often wondered where people are supposed to store and put on their space suits. I'd think you put them on before you entered the airlock, so that means there needs to be a dressing area to change, and a place to store your suit (as well as recharge it with power and air).

Good point. On small ships (a la a Type S) I can see the crew having the suits in their berthing and putting them on there. Not so much for larger vessels.

I've always thought that the pressure suit you might wear inside a spaceship would be different than the one you'd wear outside. While not as bulky as say an Apollo suit, an external suit should still have some life support gear, thrusters, and be bulkier and stronger than something you'd be wearing inside a ship for atmospheric protection. Internal suits would be more like clothing I'd think.

I guess a person could store their personal suit in their quarters. I'd still think they'd hang them up by the airlock where they would be going in/out of the ship. It just seems to make more sense to centralize that sort of thing, especially in a small ship where space is limited.

 

[sideranautae]

I've always thought that the pressure suit you might wear inside a spaceship would be different than the one you'd wear outside. While not as bulky as say an Apollo suit, an external suit should still have some life support gear, thrusters, and be bulkier and stronger than something you'd be wearing inside a ship for atmospheric protection. Internal suits would be more like clothing I'd think.

At high TL, a long term EV suit would have more power packs, more life support, etc. So would be bigger. Nothing like the TL 6 Apollo suits though. A "Vacc suit" of the Tailored type can be worn while on duty. A locker near the main airlocks would probably house the EV suits. I couldn't see those being stuffed into staterooms.
[/quote]

 

[rust]

2 people + carrying a 3rd EASILY fits in a 1.5m x 3m space.

It is only a 1.5m x 3m space if one assumes that the airlock technology
itself (e.g. air pumps, motors, etc.) does not require any part of that vo-
lume.

 

[sideranautae]

2 people + carrying a 3rd EASILY fits in a 1.5m x 3m space.

It is only a 1.5m x 3m space if one assumes that the airlock technology
itself (e.g. air pumps, motors, etc.) does not require any part of that vo-
lume.

No. The decks aren't 3 meters high in a small ship. Space between is maybe 10 cm. SO, that one ton includes the entire one ton (14 M3). Not just the 2 dimensional aspect...

 

[Condottiere]

You're probably looking at a 2.5 metre ceiling.

The one ton airlock is the default size, that's likely included in the tonnage of the bridge: feel free to increase it, but you may want to adjust costs accordingly.

 

[sideranautae]

You're probably looking at a 2.5 metre ceiling.

Not if they are like small ships today. They are cramped. More like 2.2 meters. You don't have 1.5 meter wide passageways either. Those are about 1 meter wide. Large dimensions come about on large, dedicated liners and the like.

In Trav ships (see mortgage size and trade rules) every cubic meter of space that can BE, IS cargo space. Humans take a back seat comfort wise.

The one ton airlock is the default size, that's likely included in the tonnage of the bridge: feel free to increase it, but you may want to adjust costs accordingly.

Quite correct. Hence an actual volume formula for cost rather than the bizarre rules Mgt Trav has now.